[2024-11-28T00:45:02Z] <riteo> soju + senpai = comfy
[2024-11-28T00:45:12Z] <riteo> except when you want an encrypted local setup >:[
[2024-11-28T00:45:23Z] <riteo> why the hell is TLS the only solution here for encryption
[2024-11-28T00:45:44Z] <sad_plan> riteo: for sure. I used it on pico.sh, and senpai at the very least is very comfy
[2024-11-28T00:46:09Z] <sad_plan> whats wrong with tls?
[2024-11-28T00:46:34Z] <riteo> it's not built with local networks in mind really
[2024-11-28T00:46:55Z] <riteo> I need a new root of trust and sign shit there, that or a self-signed certificate
[2024-11-28T00:47:15Z] <riteo> both suck and now that shit's expired I also forgot the openssl commands to do that :facepalm:
[2024-11-28T00:47:42Z] <sad_plan> maybe not. I would be using both local and remote though. not sure if this makes things better or worse :p
[2024-11-28T00:48:06Z] <riteo> remote means you'll have (probably) a domain name
[2024-11-28T00:48:12Z] <riteo> that means you're fine
[2024-11-28T00:48:44Z] <sad_plan> well, it would just be a rpi at my house, and ill be at work connecting to the bouncer
[2024-11-28T00:49:40Z] <riteo> directly through IP?
[2024-11-28T00:50:19Z] <riteo> I hope I'm missing something but it looks like if you wanna make a cert for a local hostname you have to make a whole new root of trust /or/ self signed certs which I don't think are trusted either by default
[2024-11-28T00:50:55Z] <riteo> which is annoying as that means copying stuff into some system dir I forgot for every machine you want
[2024-11-28T00:51:57Z] <riteo> I have no idea if there are alternatives but it really feels like senpai and soju are designed more for public-facing servers than lil local ones 
[2024-11-28T00:52:01Z] <riteo> and I mean I don't blame them
[2024-11-28T00:52:46Z] <sad_plan> I suppose so, yes. I am considering using ssh tunneling instead, not sure whats least inconvinent tbh
[2024-11-28T00:53:18Z] <riteo> I mean if you use ssh tunneling and not ssh directly I guess you could offset that yeah
[2024-11-28T00:54:21Z] <sad_plan> I suppose so
[2024-11-28T03:30:21Z] <midfavila> https://www.crowdsupply.com/shenzhen-tianmao-technology/genbook-rk3588
[2024-11-28T03:30:27Z] <midfavila> you guys might find this neat
[2024-11-28T03:30:56Z] <midfavila> strikes a good balance between the more mainstream design and cost-to-performance ratio of the framework and the being-actually-well-designed factor of the mnt reform
[2024-11-28T03:31:42Z] <midfavila> 700USD for a 32GB eight-core ARM machine with (presumably on launch or maybe rn in a github?) open schematics and a decent display and stuff
[2024-11-28T03:31:46Z] <midfavila> it's much more laptop-y 
[2024-11-28T03:32:13Z] <midfavila> i'm hoping they produce a cm4 adapter since that seems to be an emerging de facto standard for a lot of open projects 
[2024-11-28T03:32:35Z] <midfavila> ala SoMs
[2024-11-28T03:34:46Z] <midfavila> schems on their website and BoM for the SoM. nice.
[2024-11-28T03:36:06Z] <midfavila> honestly this is a super great project if they can deliver on it as is. it's low cost and reasonably performant, with a more off-the-shelf look and feel, without (seemingly) compromising on its principles in a significant manner...
[2024-11-28T04:12:41Z] <sad_plan> neat
[2024-11-28T04:17:01Z] <sad_plan> honestly, this would probably be much more appealing to the masses than mnt reform, atleast speaking from formfactor pov. when you shop a laptop, its supposed to be portable, lightweight and easy to carry. I dont see the reform gaining too many points there :p
[2024-11-28T04:18:19Z] <sad_plan> I think I could see myself using this laptop tbh
[2024-11-28T04:22:57Z] <midfavila> idk reform is plenty portable
[2024-11-28T04:23:17Z] <midfavila> unless youre judging by like a backpack laptop slot in which case mmmnmhm
[2024-11-28T04:23:19Z] <midfavila> but yeah
[2024-11-28T04:23:39Z] <midfavila> that one is definitely more conventional
[2024-11-28T04:26:26Z] <sad_plan> perhaps im judgemental to its formfactor. seeing how thick it is. how much does it weigh even?
[2024-11-28T04:27:04Z] <midfavila> like maye 4lbs
[2024-11-28T04:27:08Z] <midfavila> maybe*
[2024-11-28T04:27:14Z] <midfavila> maybe
[2024-11-28T04:28:07Z] <midfavila> ig if youre a biceplet that could be an issue but i take it to work on my bike in a messenger bag and honestly my bike lock is heavier
[2024-11-28T04:28:12Z] <midfavila> significantly so
[2024-11-28T04:28:56Z] <sad_plan> 4lbs isnt *that* bad. I mean, it could be double that
[2024-11-28T04:29:17Z] <sad_plan> tbh, my acer laptop probably isnt that much lighter
[2024-11-28T04:29:24Z] <midfavila> 4lbs is pretty good
[2024-11-28T04:29:40Z] <midfavila> i think the uconsole approaches a pound
[2024-11-28T04:29:49Z] <midfavila> just handfeeling it
[2024-11-28T04:29:59Z] <sad_plan> I havent weighed mine, but 4lbs doesnt sound too bad for such a thick laptop
[2024-11-28T04:30:00Z] <midfavila> so ye 
[2024-11-28T04:30:02Z] <sad_plan> damn
[2024-11-28T04:30:14Z] <midfavila> tbf tho the uconsole is a brick
[2024-11-28T04:30:53Z] <midfavila> gonna be even moreso once i cram 4 more batteries in there
[2024-11-28T04:31:05Z] <midfavila> 21Ah here we come >:3c
[2024-11-28T04:31:09Z] <sad_plan> a forum post says uconsole weighs ~450g
[2024-11-28T04:31:16Z] <midfavila> 454==1lb
[2024-11-28T04:31:25Z] <midfavila> so right on the money
[2024-11-28T04:31:28Z] <sad_plan> which is.. probably 4x ish the regular phone weight
[2024-11-28T04:31:30Z] <sad_plan> yep
[2024-11-28T04:31:56Z] <sad_plan> how many batteries doest it come with? 2?
[2024-11-28T04:32:01Z] <midfavila> yeb
[2024-11-28T04:32:09Z] <midfavila> 2 18650 lipos in parallel
[2024-11-28T04:32:18Z] <sad_plan> neat
[2024-11-28T04:32:28Z] <midfavila> someone on the forum modified the battery board to have four more terminals
[2024-11-28T04:33:04Z] <midfavila> i already get a full day out of the uconsole on a single charge
[2024-11-28T04:33:12Z] <midfavila> with the screen on all day
[2024-11-28T04:33:31Z] <sad_plan> not too bad. even on regular phones, that can be tough
[2024-11-28T04:33:36Z] <midfavila> yeb
[2024-11-28T04:33:53Z] <midfavila> also keep in mind that it runs a full fat ubuntu
[2024-11-28T04:34:11Z] <midfavila> so sysd/networkman/modemman/pulse/etc are all running too
[2024-11-28T04:34:37Z] <sad_plan> yeah, it could probably run somewhat leaner if it ran something less than full fledged ubuntu
[2024-11-28T04:34:41Z] <midfavila> a leaner, better-optimised image with proper suspend support would probably fare a lil better
[2024-11-28T04:34:44Z] <midfavila> ye
[2024-11-28T04:34:57Z] <sad_plan> yep
[2024-11-28T04:35:02Z] <midfavila> im hoping to get back to fiddling with it soon
[2024-11-28T04:35:18Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2024-11-28T04:35:25Z] <midfavila> i wanna rebuild the base image from source, then try to get a plain debian
[2024-11-28T04:35:48Z] <midfavila> once i can do that i'll have the build down plus all the essentials from clockwork isolated
[2024-11-28T04:36:01Z] <midfavila> after that gonna experiment with alpine
[2024-11-28T04:36:21Z] <midfavila> if alpine can run, anything can
[2024-11-28T04:37:13Z] <midfavila> that means a kiss image and then work starts on curses programs
[2024-11-28T04:37:49Z] <midfavila> at some point id like to write a library that abstracts over xaw/curses/etc and just use that
[2024-11-28T04:38:15Z] <midfavila> present a simplified interface for creating CUA programs for either toolkit
[2024-11-28T04:39:19Z] <sad_plan> I was going to say alpine doesnt provide riscv rootfs's, or isos, but then I saw it
[2024-11-28T04:39:27Z] <sad_plan> its only a mini rootfs though, not isos
[2024-11-28T04:39:44Z] <sad_plan> but yes, if alpine runs, most other things should for sure run
[2024-11-28T04:40:02Z] <midfavila> the build process for the r01 image calls for a rootfs only
[2024-11-28T04:40:49Z] <sad_plan> why? is this a riscv thing or a uconsole thing or..?
[2024-11-28T04:40:49Z] <midfavila> basically entails creating a raw disk image, partitioning and formatting it, injecting the spl and uboot into the first 32m,
[2024-11-28T04:41:18Z] <midfavila> then installing grub (and syslinux???) onto the boot partition and pointing that at the rootfs
[2024-11-28T04:41:27Z] <midfavila> its a uconsole thing i think
[2024-11-28T04:41:41Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2024-11-28T04:42:03Z] <midfavila> its weird
[2024-11-28T04:42:09Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2024-11-28T04:42:10Z] <midfavila> they dont have good docs at all
[2024-11-28T04:42:28Z] <sad_plan> hopefully itll come once riscv gets a better foothold
[2024-11-28T04:42:36Z] <midfavila> it wont
[2024-11-28T04:42:47Z] <midfavila> i think the r01 was intended mostly as a novelty
[2024-11-28T04:42:55Z] <midfavila> which sucks because its a great som
[2024-11-28T04:43:08Z] <midfavila> add emmc to it and id be cheesed
[2024-11-28T04:43:27Z] <midfavila> even moreso if you replaced the sd slot with a CF one
[2024-11-28T04:43:30Z] <midfavila> or had both
[2024-11-28T04:43:32Z] <sad_plan> whats so good about emmc? ive always found it restricting
[2024-11-28T04:43:44Z] <sad_plan> CF?
[2024-11-28T04:43:47Z] <midfavila> not needing an sd card to boot off of
[2024-11-28T04:43:52Z] <midfavila> compactflash
[2024-11-28T04:44:13Z] <sad_plan> well, sure thats an advantage.
[2024-11-28T04:44:16Z] <sad_plan> whats that?
[2024-11-28T04:44:26Z] <midfavila> basically miniaturised IDE
[2024-11-28T04:44:31Z] <midfavila> used in cameras a lot
[2024-11-28T04:44:34Z] <sad_plan> hm
[2024-11-28T04:44:41Z] <midfavila> old iPods used it for their 1.8" HDDs
[2024-11-28T04:45:03Z] <midfavila> some industrial machines use it as primary storage instead of a full size disk
[2024-11-28T04:45:03Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2024-11-28T04:45:14Z] <sad_plan> got it
[2024-11-28T04:45:17Z] <sad_plan> its smol
[2024-11-28T04:45:32Z] <midfavila> smol, cheap, easy to support
[2024-11-28T04:45:46Z] <sad_plan> and more reliable than sdcards aswell?
[2024-11-28T04:45:50Z] <midfavila> fits with the retrofuture aesthetic
[2024-11-28T04:45:58Z] <midfavila> less of a bitch to get in and out
[2024-11-28T04:46:00Z] <midfavila> afaik yes
[2024-11-28T04:46:05Z] <sad_plan> nice
[2024-11-28T04:46:15Z] <midfavila> since most CFs are used in cameras etc
[2024-11-28T04:46:31Z] <sad_plan> sdcards and usbsticks are horrendiously unreliable for storage initially
[2024-11-28T04:46:36Z] <midfavila> im sure high performance SD cards are competitive but i honestly dont know
[2024-11-28T04:47:02Z] <sad_plan> i think I remember those now that you mention it. i think my dad had one of them in a digital camera. unless someone else in the family had it
[2024-11-28T04:47:14Z] <midfavila> yeah i need to set up a script to sync my homedirs between my lappy and uconsole
[2024-11-28T04:48:05Z] <sad_plan> yeah, im hoping to get an sdcard for my pi tomorrow, and a new cable for it, so that I can use it to rsync some stuff myself
[2024-11-28T04:48:11Z] <midfavila> then i need to get plan9port running on the uconsole >w>
[2024-11-28T04:48:21Z] <sad_plan> nice
[2024-11-28T04:48:46Z] <midfavila> i honestly love this lil thing
[2024-11-28T04:48:50Z] <sad_plan> have you tried compiling upstream 9front stuff instead of p9p? some of it should work right ootb
[2024-11-28T04:48:58Z] <sad_plan> rc atleast, or so Ive been told
[2024-11-28T04:49:08Z] <midfavila> ive gotten rc running
[2024-11-28T04:49:21Z] <sad_plan> nice
[2024-11-28T04:49:24Z] <midfavila> ye
[2024-11-28T04:49:31Z] <midfavila> never bothered with the rest
[2024-11-28T04:49:47Z] <midfavila> too focused on spinning up my custom distro
[2024-11-28T04:50:02Z] <sad_plan> I dont really use much of p9 stuff outside of rc. and read from 9base, because of a script I use, which requires read
[2024-11-28T04:50:05Z] <sad_plan> I get that
[2024-11-28T04:50:47Z] <midfavila> still need to figure out X forwarding over TAP interfaces...
[2024-11-28T04:50:51Z] <midfavila> for qemu
[2024-11-28T04:51:04Z] <sad_plan> what will you be forwarding?
[2024-11-28T04:51:17Z] <midfavila> i kinda wanna experiment with ideas from qubes
[2024-11-28T04:51:33Z] <sad_plan> I see. separating things into its own boxes
[2024-11-28T04:51:44Z] <midfavila> where you can spin up a headless alpine to run a given application
[2024-11-28T04:51:47Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2024-11-28T04:52:04Z] <sad_plan> its a good practice security wise
[2024-11-28T04:52:20Z] <midfavila> so if theres stuff you dont trust/dont want corrupting the bodily fluids of your pure distro/etc you can do so easily
[2024-11-28T04:52:40Z] <midfavila> tbh its mostly because i want to use firefox without installing its deps
[2024-11-28T04:52:53Z] <sad_plan> yep. I separate garbage apps on my phone into its own user profile aswell.
[2024-11-28T04:52:53Z] <midfavila> or using regular normie software EUGH
[2024-11-28T04:53:14Z] <midfavila> i WILL use bearssl and NOBODY will stop me
[2024-11-28T04:53:42Z] <sad_plan> could also use conty aswell, which might be a less inconvinent way of doing it
[2024-11-28T04:53:50Z] <midfavila> conty?
[2024-11-28T04:54:00Z] <midfavila> is that a containerisation thing?
[2024-11-28T04:54:18Z] <sad_plan> here https://github.com/kron4ek/conty
[2024-11-28T04:54:23Z] <sad_plan> its basically just a chroot
[2024-11-28T04:54:50Z] <sad_plan> but it supports compression, x11, wayland, xwayland, drawfs squashfs
[2024-11-28T04:55:15Z] <sad_plan> its mostly geared torwards gaming it seems, but you can use it for just firefox and other stuff aswell
[2024-11-28T04:55:36Z] <midfavila> bing bing wahoos!?
[2024-11-28T04:56:13Z] <sad_plan> what?
[2024-11-28T04:57:04Z] <midfavila> nvm :P
[2024-11-28T04:57:17Z] <midfavila> conty looks maybe interesting tho
[2024-11-28T04:58:30Z] <sad_plan> yeah. you can also build it yourself pretty easily, so you can include only what you want. which is quite good imo
[2024-11-28T04:58:46Z] <sad_plan> ive not gotten it to work on my setup yet, have no idea why, but oh well
[2024-11-28T04:59:02Z] <sad_plan> maybe this is a tinyx thing. havent tried in velox yet
[2024-11-28T04:59:13Z] <midfavila> tinyx is funky
[2024-11-28T04:59:16Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2024-11-28T04:59:24Z] <midfavila> i like it though
[2024-11-28T04:59:47Z] <midfavila> id like to work on it once i know more about C and X etc
[2024-11-28T04:59:54Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2024-11-28T04:59:59Z] <midfavila> ofc id prefer MGR but beggars and choosers
[2024-11-28T05:00:11Z] <sad_plan> mgr?
[2024-11-28T05:00:19Z] <midfavila> ManaGeR
[2024-11-28T05:00:22Z] <sad_plan> ah
[2024-11-28T05:00:26Z] <midfavila> ancient graphics subsystem
[2024-11-28T05:00:33Z] <midfavila> cross platform for unixes
[2024-11-28T05:00:47Z] <sad_plan> yeah, i think i seen it mentioned in the irc logs
[2024-11-28T05:00:54Z] <midfavila> monochrome. basically a supremely advanced terminal multiplexer
[2024-11-28T05:01:00Z] <sad_plan> hm
[2024-11-28T05:01:10Z] <midfavila> network transparent, native integration with termcap
[2024-11-28T05:01:30Z] <midfavila> entire codebase is like 1-200k lines of C (albeit pre KnR)
[2024-11-28T05:01:35Z] <midfavila> including drivers
[2024-11-28T05:01:51Z] <midfavila> has C and ELisp binds
[2024-11-28T05:02:03Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2024-11-28T05:02:06Z] <midfavila> ive gotten it to build and like, *start*
[2024-11-28T05:02:10Z] <midfavila> on KISS
[2024-11-28T05:02:15Z] <midfavila> but never actually run
[2024-11-28T05:02:45Z] <midfavila> if i could get mgr going i would lose my mind
[2024-11-28T05:03:25Z] <midfavila> it feels very unix-y
[2024-11-28T05:03:26Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2024-11-28T05:03:31Z] <midfavila> seriously
[2024-11-28T05:03:38Z] <midfavila> its super clean and lightweight
[2024-11-28T05:03:45Z] <sad_plan> g2g though. time for bed for me
[2024-11-28T05:03:49Z] <midfavila> rip
[2024-11-28T05:06:37Z] <midfavila> ooh
[2024-11-28T05:06:52Z] <midfavila> conty can be used to isolate build environments maybe...
[2024-11-28T05:13:57Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2024-11-28T05:14:55Z] <midfavila> if a conty-like solution could be retooled to work under tinyx and be further isolated from the host, it could be a compelling improvement over the qemu x11 idea...
[2024-11-28T13:40:19Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: yep, conty could be a viable alternative to the qmeu x11 idea
[2024-11-28T19:10:34Z] <sad_plan> ive been testing dtach and abduco for a few days now, and I cant help but feel that its less convinent that just having window groups. a simple keypress to hide/unhide w/e it is you wanna see/dont see. as opposed to having to detach/attach programs.
[2024-11-28T19:11:13Z] <sad_plan> not sure why, but I also have to redraw the terminal, especially catgirl. cmus seems to work fine
[2024-11-28T19:13:38Z] <sad_plan> using tabbed for the terminal could also be an alternative here, maybe even a better one, but wmutils wont properly connect to it if you use $(pfw), as itll try to move/resize the wrong window id
[2024-11-28T19:13:43Z] * sad_plan shrugs
[2024-11-28T19:13:58Z] <sad_plan> I suppose window groups is superior
[2024-11-28T22:08:01Z] <midfavila> tbqh ive never liked dtwm
[2024-11-28T22:08:10Z] <midfavila> or abduco 
[2024-11-28T22:08:18Z] <midfavila> dtach(1) plus mtm(1) is honestly peak
[2024-11-28T22:08:36Z] <midfavila> only issue i take with mtm is that it doesn't link against portable netbsd-curses
[2024-11-28T22:08:45Z] <midfavila> due to a single instance of a gnuism
[2024-11-28T22:09:16Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/deadpixi/mtm
[2024-11-28T22:09:34Z] <midfavila> also has tmt, a simple terminal implementation 
[2024-11-28T22:09:41Z] <midfavila> deadpixi is really skilled
[2024-11-28T22:10:31Z] <midfavila> i would love to implement a super simple X11 terminal on top of libtmt and athena to replace xterm
[2024-11-28T22:11:39Z] <midfavila> also re wmutils iirc it's something to do with the X11 window ID being linked to the wm's frame and not the client window itself
[2024-11-28T22:11:44Z] <midfavila> i've had weird experiences with that
[2024-11-28T22:13:14Z] <midfavila> mannnnnnnn
[2024-11-28T22:13:21Z] <midfavila> i want my mnt reform mainboard back so badly ;w;
[2024-11-28T22:34:50Z] <midfavila> ive really had a hankering for getting back into programming