[2025-01-03T14:02:54Z] solaare: this is even the case with more vs less code. sbase xargs will supposedly produce a larger binary, than openbsd xargs, despire openbsd's being almost twice the LOC. [2025-01-03T14:19:50Z] that doesnt surprise me in the least [2025-01-03T14:20:09Z] its not really an issue tho [2025-01-03T14:20:55Z] ease of maintenance and compliance are the most important factors for me, followed by portability and performance somewhere down the list [2025-01-03T14:21:32Z] unless its a specific application e.g. map software that does lots of crunching [2025-01-03T14:22:44Z] or compilers, scientific software, that kind of thing [2025-01-03T14:22:54Z] then performance is a little more important [2025-01-03T14:24:22Z] also gm computer kissers [2025-01-03T14:24:28Z] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEHUFRRK9Sk [2025-01-03T14:30:19Z] I suppose sbase xargs is just poorly optimized in comparison to openbsd xargs. I couldnt personally reproduce a smaller openbsd binary than sbase xargs, but I got the exact same size. which was also somewhat curious to me [2025-01-03T14:31:41Z] wait, no, sbase xargs ended up with 47456 bytes, whereas openbsd xargs was 47192 bytes. so yes, it is smaller. but not by a lot :p [2025-01-03T15:15:49Z] Hello, I'm trying to install swayfx but I have an issue with building llvm. Anyone in the same situation? [2025-01-03T15:16:47Z] l0wigh: i built llvm just earlier today, no issues on my end. please post log. use 0x0.st or something of the sort [2025-01-03T15:22:07Z] https://0x0.st/8iik.txt [2025-01-03T15:22:23Z] Seems like it's coming from AMD related code [2025-01-03T15:25:13Z] you seem to be running out of memory [2025-01-03T15:25:43Z] On disk or ram ? [2025-01-03T15:27:10Z] it is most probably ram [2025-01-03T15:27:30Z] did you setup a swapfile or partition [2025-01-03T15:28:19Z] I have a swap partition, but I probably never setup properly. Is swapon is necessary every time I start the computer ? [2025-01-03T15:29:08Z] your swap needs to be mounted, but it should be taken care of by your fstab. you can doublecheck to see if its mounted by ooking at the result of lsblk. or cat /etc/mtab [2025-01-03T15:30:19Z] wait, I dont belive swap shows in mtab [2025-01-03T15:30:25Z] It wasn't mounted. I just did a swapon. Now it seems to be mounted [2025-01-03T15:31:06Z] heh [2025-01-03T15:31:56Z] but yes, it seems the process got killed. so it might be oom, as xdream8 said. how much ram you got? and threads? [2025-01-03T15:33:21Z] Genfstab seems to not take my swap partition in count [2025-01-03T15:33:57Z] it should. but it dont matter. you can just add it manually [2025-01-03T15:34:19Z] I have 4gb of ram and 4 threads cpu [2025-01-03T15:34:48Z] It's a 2012 MacBook air (yes, it takes ages to compile stuff) [2025-01-03T15:35:54Z] you can add this to your fstab(replace X): /dev/X none swap sw 0 0 [2025-01-03T15:36:05Z] 4gb should suffice afaik. nevetheless. [2025-01-03T15:36:18Z] xdream8: whats sw for? should it be dev/X none swa default 0 0? [2025-01-03T15:36:33Z] s/swa/swap/ obviously [2025-01-03T15:36:47Z] @xdream8: no need for uuid? [2025-01-03T15:37:05Z] oh, its defaults, not default it seems. according to arch wiki [2025-01-03T15:37:10Z] l0wigh: no need to uuid [2025-01-03T15:37:19Z] s/to/for/ [2025-01-03T15:37:33Z] I dont use uuid at all for any of my partitions [2025-01-03T15:37:38Z] Oh ok I'll add it later. Rebuilding right now [2025-01-03T15:38:04Z] You guys are using kiss with more powerful computer right ? [2025-01-03T15:38:23Z] I feel like I would need 3 days to fully configure and install everything I need [2025-01-03T15:38:46Z] somewhat, but theres been all kinds. dilyn also used to have a macbook. compiled chromium on it, and it took 38hr or so [2025-01-03T15:39:22Z] personally I have 8 threads and 16gb on my laptop, but recently built a new desktop with some beefier stuff [2025-01-03T15:40:14Z] Building my kernel (which was strip down with the magic option) took 1h30 [2025-01-03T15:40:15Z] I used to use 8 hours or so to build everything from scratch on my laptop. and thats with everything more or less preconfigured [2025-01-03T15:40:20Z] damn [2025-01-03T15:40:47Z] how long time gcc take? [2025-01-03T15:41:00Z] I can't remember [2025-01-03T15:41:03Z] sad_plan: as i know of 'sw' is the mount option for 'swapon -a'(or at least for swapon implementations that supports it) [2025-01-03T15:41:19Z] laptop takes ~1hr ish. new desktop took like 1015 minutes or so [2025-01-03T15:41:46Z] xdream8: hm, would that fall under defaults then? [2025-01-03T15:41:53Z] I should sell my MacBook pro (running arch) and buy something stronger honestly [2025-01-03T15:42:51Z] l0wigh: just use lighter software. takes shorter time to compile. you could also opt to use some binaries. however that feels like cheating :p [2025-01-03T15:42:54Z] l0wigh: actually i remember installing and using kiss on a core 2 laptop for some time, 1 or 2 years ago [2025-01-03T15:43:17Z] xdream8: how long did that take? :P [2025-01-03T15:44:04Z] sad_plan: i am not sure about that but if arch wiki suggests using defaults that probably means 'sw' falls under defaults [2025-01-03T15:44:13Z] Yeah buildong stuff seems like the only honest way to use KISS [2025-01-03T15:44:36Z] xdream8: seems this agrees with you https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/365953/what-sw-means-in-the-fstab-swap-entry-for-mount-options-column . just never seen it myself :p [2025-01-03T15:45:06Z] l0wigh: yep. [2025-01-03T15:45:22Z] sad_plan: if i dont remember it wrong installing everything i need took 3 or 4 days at that time [2025-01-03T15:45:51Z] I also want to go for a system that uses the as minimum ram as possible since it's some old hardware. It runs fine but some helps can make it work like a new computer [2025-01-03T15:46:37Z] xdream8: sounds awefull to run a source based distro on something so slow.. [2025-01-03T15:47:18Z] l0wigh: you can achieve that, but optimizations often comes with a cost when building. buildtimes can double at times even [2025-01-03T15:47:45Z] sad_plan: yeah building things was so slow that i was sleeping most of the time when it was building packages [2025-01-03T15:48:16Z] xdream8: makes sense to just run it in the background some place, and check in on it from time to time [2025-01-03T15:48:28Z] Honestly, I would like to really tweak the kernel to remove everything that I don't need. It feels like a new step coming from arch and running almost no useless tools on it [2025-01-03T15:49:25Z] l0wigh: then make allnoconfig is for you. make tinyconfig is also more or less the same, it just enabled couple things that would make the kernel smaller. I think its like 3 or 4 options or something [2025-01-03T15:49:50Z] its a fun experience. building the system from ground up [2025-01-03T15:50:41Z] I still want it to boot, I already had some issues with first my first config :') [2025-01-03T15:52:40Z] yeah, boot first, and get to know the system properly. building the kernel over and over and over can be quite daunting. you also have to know/figure out which options is optional for you. your system will for sure break in all kinds of ways. mine did, many many times :p [2025-01-03T15:53:56Z] make allnoconfig is a torture if you dont know what you are doing [2025-01-03T15:54:02Z] so get a little bit experienced first [2025-01-03T15:58:30Z] I might feel better going from my existing config and removing stuff that I certainly doesn't need [2025-01-03T16:02:24Z] It seems to compile nicely now. Thank you very much ! [2025-01-03T16:20:34Z] xdream8: ive had fun with allnoconfig. it does help very much to have any kind of reference to work off of. but sure, it can be torture if youre not sure what you need and not [2025-01-03T16:38:13Z] i have had fun with make allnoconfig too but i would not recommend it for someone that is new to configuring the kernel [2025-01-03T16:39:07Z] but it is one of the best ways to learn too [2025-01-03T16:39:11Z] so it is up to choice [2025-01-03T16:45:18Z] I agree. but it is liek learning the hard way kind of way. which can be good, but its painfull having to rebuild the kernel 50 times or so because something is broken, but you cant figure out why :p [2025-01-03T16:50:52Z] Guys llvm compilation is still running. I hope I'll not need to do it that often [2025-01-03T16:51:12Z] llvm isnt update all that often, luckily [2025-01-03T16:52:10Z] however, its often backwards compatible, so you can leave it unupdated instead if you really dont wanna build it. you can also choose to build it overnight, so you dont have to sit and wait for it [2025-01-03T16:53:54Z] Also another question. Kiss package manager doesn't manage dependencies at unistall time [2025-01-03T16:54:03Z] wdym [2025-01-03T16:54:23Z] sewn: it doesnt purge orphans by default [2025-01-03T16:54:27Z] If I remove swayfx. It will only remove swayfx and not llvm for example [2025-01-03T16:54:29Z] and no, it doesnt [2025-01-03T16:54:53Z] run kiss o to view orphans, or packages which is not a runtime dependency [2025-01-03T16:55:18Z] Ohhh thanks, I should keep this in mind [2025-01-03T17:01:53Z] l0wigh: while you sit and wait for llvm to finish, you might want to consider looking into zswap. I think you might benefit from its use [2025-01-03T17:05:21Z] Zswap is the compressed swap in a file right ? [2025-01-03T17:06:38Z] almost. its compressed ram basically [2025-01-03T17:06:47Z] so you get more out of your ram. [2025-01-03T17:07:00Z] tldr you get more ram so to speak [2025-01-03T17:07:26Z] have a read here https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Zswap [2025-01-03T17:12:18Z] we finally did it [2025-01-03T17:12:22Z] we found how to download more ram [2025-01-03T17:12:32Z] yep [2025-01-03T17:13:07Z] also fun fact the marvelous 1000+ bucks macbook uses that to extend its huge 8GB of RAM [2025-01-03T17:13:27Z] or at least, an equivalent subsystem under the MacOS kernel [2025-01-03T17:14:08Z] when you think about the price here, and that fact that you have to use, or should use zram to get by, makes it sounds like a scam. wait, apple products is kinda like a scam. damn apple tax [2025-01-03T17:14:21Z] do I hate apple? you guessed it [2025-01-03T17:14:48Z] the price for ram and storage on their website is utterly outragious aswell [2025-01-03T17:15:54Z] yeah it's almost like they live in another reality [2025-01-03T17:16:16Z] I can understand all the engineering you want but more ram is "free" from an engineering standpoint [2025-01-03T17:17:28Z] something like that. theres a funny (or sad, depending on how you view it), people line up for the upcomming new iphone each year, and you ask people what new features they cant wait to have, or looking forward to or w/e, you get the idea. and they cant answer the question, because theres is none [2025-01-03T17:17:53Z] oof [2025-01-03T17:18:01Z] mfw they don't even read the overblown marketing material [2025-01-03T17:18:19Z] well that's just pure status symbol shit at this point [2025-01-03T17:18:47Z] I mean, they massproduce this shit, more ram should atleast be somewhat similar to regular prices. with the minor addition of ram being soldered on. so im fine with a slight priceincrease in comparisson to ram sticks [2025-01-03T17:19:25Z] nah, boards have definitely the exact same pads for all models [2025-01-03T17:19:29Z] they just go unpopulated [2025-01-03T17:19:30Z] thats exacly what it is. the iphone and other apple products isnt just another phone, tablet or w/e anymore, its a brand now. its fashion mate [2025-01-03T17:20:06Z] ye that's sad [2025-01-03T17:20:11Z] well sure, but someone has to solder them on. and im fine with a slight increase for more labor. even though its not done by a man. its machined nowdays anyway [2025-01-03T17:20:13Z] it's like the very expensive "branded" shoes [2025-01-03T17:20:24Z] correct [2025-01-03T17:20:38Z] oh all right I thought you were still talking about engineering sorry [2025-01-03T17:21:00Z] samsung has also started with this bs. so now you can buy a new samsung phone, which is likely worse, atleast software wise, for more money [2025-01-03T17:21:26Z] no, i was only refering to cost of labor with more ram [2025-01-03T17:21:49Z] while the ramchips cost money, theire not expensive, and theyre also massproduced [2025-01-03T17:22:25Z] its like what supreme does. they create an artifical scarcity and jack up the prices. except theres no scarcity for apple products [2025-01-03T17:23:36Z] Honestly, I'm using old macbook because of the retina screens [2025-01-03T17:24:13Z] and im sure theyre great. ive never had one. hardware wise, atleast M1 and above has atleast decent hardware [2025-01-03T17:25:47Z] Yeah best screen I've ever owned. There is ok but nothing crazy [2025-01-03T17:25:57Z] The rest is* [2025-01-03T17:26:32Z] Also, zswap is activated only by enabling stuff in kernel if I read the page correctly? [2025-01-03T17:28:20Z] I belive so. you can confirm it by checking your dmesg. [2025-01-03T17:28:20Z] yeah it is pretty is to enable it [2025-01-03T17:28:36Z] s/pretty/pretty easy/ [2025-01-03T17:28:46Z] ive not really used it before myself, but im going to now on my laptop. more ram is always welcomed [2025-01-03T17:30:04Z] xdream8: how is kiss-rs comming along these days? [2025-01-03T17:32:23Z] i am currently working on build command, writing test cases for commands etc [2025-01-03T17:33:33Z] i did not push to codeberg in a while tho [2025-01-03T17:34:07Z] cool [2025-01-03T17:40:15Z] also i am working on adding some eye candy stuff like this: https://0x0.st/8iob.png [2025-01-03T17:41:51Z] Anyone forked the kiss-c version ? [2025-01-03T18:00:36Z] theres atleast one, but it hasnt really been worked on lately [2025-01-03T18:00:50Z] phoebos has a repo for it, but last commit was 2 years ago. [2025-01-03T18:01:10Z] I couldve sworn testuser had one aswell, but its empty. [2025-01-03T18:26:55Z] Clang is also a pain to compile... Please end my suffering [2025-01-03T19:06:27Z] if you need to recompile stuff, you might wanna use ccache aswell. will speed up compiling. but first compilation takes slightly more time as a caveat [2025-01-03T19:52:22Z] Arghgg... Build of scenefx fails because it can't find wlroots while it's definitely installed [2025-01-03T20:26:47Z] Instead I got sway running, next is xorg to finally run something actually useful for me [2025-01-03T20:27:02Z] Still wondering why scenefx failed to build [2025-01-03T20:27:04Z] cant you run it on wayland? [2025-01-03T20:27:47Z] When I mean running something useful, is running a window manager that I prefer [2025-01-03T20:28:07Z] theres more window managers than sway available for wayland though [2025-01-03T20:28:26Z] but sure, theres even more for X [2025-01-03T20:28:59Z] Swayfx would have been nice, but can't run it. I'm personally disgusted by Hyprland. Other stuff, I don't know much (except for newm which would require too much tweaking right now) [2025-01-03T20:30:32Z] dwl is pretty nice, if you like dwm atleast. hikari is cool, but seems to be dead. if you want something really simple. velox exists aswell. theres lots of options really, if you just take a look [2025-01-03T20:32:59Z] I would like to take a look at swayfx (needs to find why the build fails on scenefx), niri would also be considered since I like scrollable compositor, dwl would be great, but I would honestly much prefer running dwm [2025-01-03T20:39:26Z] hm, well w/e works best I suppose [2025-01-03T20:41:42Z] W/e ? [2025-01-03T20:41:52Z] whatever :p [2025-01-03T20:51:34Z] Well this installation is temporary, it's for testing what would work best for me in the final. So I'm testing a bit of everything, any recommendations is greatly appreciated [2025-01-03T21:17:24Z] l0wigh: I wrote some articles on zswap and zram for the wiki which I used when I was running on my 2014 macbook pro [2025-01-03T21:17:25Z] https://kisscommunity.org/storage/ [2025-01-03T21:17:44Z] also you aren't going to be able to build chromium with only 4gbs of ram -- you'll oom at the final link :v [2025-01-03T21:17:54Z] actually mold might be able to do it... [2025-01-03T21:56:40Z] I'll look at the link later it seems interesting. Chromium is not my goal fortunately. Surf might be the way in my case, even if it lacks some features [2025-01-03T22:24:39Z] surf is really nice, I'm a big fan