[2025-06-09T01:04:27Z] <riteo> midfavila re "the ideology of the personal motorcar": that was a great read
[2025-06-09T04:07:51Z] <midfavila> riteo: cars bad
[2025-06-09T04:08:05Z] <midfavila> sorry i was out today
[2025-06-09T04:08:17Z] <midfavila> i ended up visiting a fren after shopping and then i just died on his couch
[2025-06-09T04:08:28Z] <midfavila> for like the entire afternoon and he didn't fuckin wake me up
[2025-06-09T04:08:29Z] <midfavila> >:c
[2025-06-09T05:36:17Z] <sewn> midfavila: what's wrong with that
[2025-06-09T05:36:20Z] <sewn> he was good fren
[2025-06-09T05:36:38Z] <sewn> if I was in his position I'd let u sleep cuz u looked like u needed it
[2025-06-09T09:54:36Z] <plasm0duck> Hello, is this distro still being activly maintained?
[2025-06-09T09:54:43Z] <plasm0duck> I was thinking about using it.
[2025-06-09T11:08:53Z] <sad_plan> plasm0duck: yes
[2025-06-09T11:27:31Z] <sewn> no
[2025-06-09T12:08:43Z] <plasm0duck> Which one is it?
[2025-06-09T12:23:14Z] <sewn> the original kiss linux is dead
[2025-06-09T12:23:40Z] <sewn> the fork that the community maintains from kiss linux is somewhat alive
[2025-06-09T12:25:53Z] * midfavila shakes 8-ball
[2025-06-09T12:26:04Z] <midfavila> plasm0duck: try again later
[2025-06-09T12:30:03Z] <plasm0duck> Yeah I knew the original maintainer went MIA. So I was more so refering to the community project.
[2025-06-09T12:38:49Z] <sewn> yeah well its somewhat hanging
[2025-06-09T13:01:46Z] <midfavila> idk kiss is simple enough that one person can maintain the entire system on their own
[2025-06-09T13:01:57Z] <midfavila> so even if the community vanished overnight...
[2025-06-09T13:02:00Z] * midfavila shrugs?
[2025-06-09T13:02:57Z] <kiedtl|town> Simple enough yes, but would someone *want* to maintain it on top of work, school, family etc? Yes, if they have none of those three
[2025-06-09T13:03:44Z] <midfavila> kiedtl|town: most of the time "maintaining" it is just bumping versions once every few months
[2025-06-09T13:03:47Z] <midfavila> lol
[2025-06-09T13:03:59Z] <kiedtl|town> I mean yes, that's fine until something needs to be patched
[2025-06-09T13:04:31Z] <kiedtl|town> Then takes more effort + investigation
[2025-06-09T13:04:34Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2025-06-09T13:04:42Z] <kiedtl|town> plasm0duck, jokes aside KISS repos are fairly well maintained
[2025-06-09T13:05:24Z] <kiedtl|town> IME the only major effort is when figuring out how to compile the goddamned kernel. After that it's pretty smooth sailing
[2025-06-09T13:05:28Z] <kiedtl|town> depends on your needs ofc
[2025-06-09T13:13:17Z] <sad_plan> things are even usually backwards compatible, so even if you just neclect updating some packages for a year, or even years, youll be fine. itll obviously be more of an issue if you need/want to keep things up to date all the time though
[2025-06-09T13:38:37Z] <sad_plan> whats the reason for gcc's stupid release flow actually? one would belive 15.1 is the latest, seeing as its the highest number. but 13.4 was infact released at a later date. libressl also has somewhat of an awefull release flow...
[2025-06-09T13:51:33Z] <kiedtl|town> Huh. Is 13.4 a patch release for 13.0? As in versions 13, 14, 15 are "stable" releases that they need to keep supporting?
[2025-06-09T13:52:34Z] <sad_plan> they seem to have some info about it here, which attemts to explain the process https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html#timeline
[2025-06-09T13:52:38Z] <kiedtl|town> Ah yeah, that seems to be it. Bugfix that backports fixes to 13.0
[2025-06-09T13:52:42Z] <kiedtl|town> ic
[2025-06-09T13:55:46Z] <sad_plan> yeah, I suppose thats the gist of it
[2025-06-09T13:59:17Z] <sad_plan> in this case, 15.x seems to be what would be euivlenat of a beta release. whereas 13.4 is now on its last legs, which might be seen as an lts release. 14.3 would then be a *stable* release
[2025-06-09T16:12:03Z] <sad_plan> would you look at that. reverted to gcc 14.3, now I was all of a sudden able to build kernel again. who wouldve thought. lol
[2025-06-09T16:12:24Z] <sewn> i feel like llvm/clang would be better fit for kiss :3
[2025-06-09T16:13:06Z] <sad_plan> cproc would be more suited for kiss. or tcc. llvm/clang is enormous. not that gcc is very tiny either though
[2025-06-09T16:14:47Z] <sewn> sad_plan: for a modern desktop?  tcc? nnnnaaaahhhhh
[2025-06-09T16:15:01Z] <sewn> llvm/clang sure is enormous
[2025-06-09T16:15:06Z] <sewn> but atleast its not GNU
[2025-06-09T16:15:11Z] <sewn> and you can trust that its somewhat good quality
[2025-06-09T16:21:46Z] <midfavila> honestly tcc you could work with
[2025-06-09T16:21:54Z] <midfavila> the problem is m4 and gnu make
[2025-06-09T16:23:04Z] <kiedtl|town> Can't give up optimizations though, it genuinely makes a difference for a lot of packages
[2025-06-09T16:23:11Z] <kiedtl|town> s/Can't/I can't/
[2025-06-09T16:23:23Z] <kiedtl|town> Not that cproc/tcc isn't super neat, it absolutely is
[2025-06-09T16:23:23Z] <midfavila> i fiddled with a tcc-based gnu-free kiss a while ago and it was m4 and make that gave me the most trouble which was annoying
[2025-06-09T16:23:32Z] <midfavila> and i mean that's fair in some cases
[2025-06-09T16:23:47Z] <midfavila> my usecase is obviously very different and probably not "modern desktop" anyway
[2025-06-09T16:23:52Z] <kiedtl|town> Fair
[2025-06-09T16:24:15Z] <midfavila> i hope cproc and qbe continue to develop
[2025-06-09T16:24:31Z] <midfavila> ~~and that maybe there's a smaller alternative to binutils...~~
[2025-06-09T16:24:48Z] <midfavila> >12k line compiler
[2025-06-09T16:24:59Z] <midfavila> >uses 1.1m line utilities for rest of toolchain
[2025-06-09T16:26:53Z] <kiedtl|town> Even if Hare doesn't get far, at least it gave qbe a revival
[2025-06-09T16:27:58Z] <midfavila> qbe died?
[2025-06-09T16:28:46Z] <midfavila> it looks like it does yearly-ish releases
[2025-06-09T16:28:50Z] <midfavila> last one was uh, last year
[2025-06-09T16:30:29Z] <kiedtl|town> Before Hare began development it was kinda dead
[2025-06-09T16:30:35Z] <midfavila> i'm just leery of anyone proclaiming "X is dead, long live X" 
[2025-06-09T16:30:49Z] <midfavila> people said the same thing about windowmaker for a long time and it wasn't true
[2025-06-09T16:30:50Z] <kiedtl|town> Then hare forked it, worked on it a bit and started upstreaming patches
[2025-06-09T16:30:54Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2025-06-09T16:30:59Z] <kiedtl|town> I mean it kinda depends on what it is
[2025-06-09T16:31:07Z] <kiedtl|town> A WM can be inactive but be completely functional
[2025-06-09T16:31:10Z] <kiedtl|town> QBE was missing quite a lot
[2025-06-09T16:31:27Z] <midfavila> fair enough
[2025-06-09T16:31:42Z] <midfavila> i hope i have enough time one day to sit down and write a lisp frontend to qbe...
[2025-06-09T16:31:56Z] <midfavila> i can dreeeam
[2025-06-09T16:32:15Z] <sad_plan> I cant help but feel like some package being dead is more often than not just tossed out there. people say bearssl is dead too, its not. dev just doesnt know how to properly implement tls1.3. the specs is dogshit according to Porney. not his word per say though. but you get the idea
[2025-06-09T16:32:24Z] <sad_plan> its been a few years since its really recieved much attentino
[2025-06-09T16:32:28Z] <sad_plan> still not dead
[2025-06-09T16:32:32Z] <midfavila> i use bearssl!
[2025-06-09T16:32:40Z] <midfavila> it's very nice
[2025-06-09T16:32:41Z] <midfavila> :3
[2025-06-09T16:33:17Z] <midfavila> once i get my workstation shipped out and i can resume work on my custom distro and its port to the uconsole i'll probably be patching what little software i have that relies on openssl's API to use libtls
[2025-06-09T16:33:23Z] <sad_plan> I do to. altough I do have libressl installed because of some stuff. ive been meaning to remove it and rebuild, as ive more or less removed it across the board at this point
[2025-06-09T16:33:36Z] <midfavila> but yeah the whole updooter mindset really irks me
[2025-06-09T16:33:46Z] <midfavila> >last git commit: ten minutes ago
[2025-06-09T16:33:51Z] <midfavila> >"it's dead!!!!!!!!!!"
[2025-06-09T16:33:56Z] <sad_plan> lol, ikr
[2025-06-09T16:33:59Z] <midfavila> like
[2025-06-09T16:34:00Z] <midfavila> just
[2025-06-09T16:34:03Z] <midfavila> b r e a t h e
[2025-06-09T16:35:14Z] <sad_plan> although I do get that if its been some months since last commit, one might question wether devs are still going to continue to work on it. however, it kinda also depends on what kind of project it is
[2025-06-09T16:35:23Z] <midfavila> exactly
[2025-06-09T16:35:36Z] <midfavila> if it's one that uses muh agile or whatever esp i would understand
[2025-06-09T16:35:37Z] <sad_plan> if its a distro, a few months might be more worrying to some, than a tiny init 
[2025-06-09T16:35:37Z] <midfavila> but like
[2025-06-09T16:35:44Z] <midfavila> not everyone uses that methodology
[2025-06-09T16:35:49Z] <midfavila> also yea
[2025-06-09T16:35:59Z] <midfavila> sometimes projects have such a tight scope that they can be considered "done"
[2025-06-09T16:36:07Z] <midfavila> not everything is a continuous process
[2025-06-09T16:36:08Z] <sad_plan> exacly
[2025-06-09T16:36:11Z] <midfavila> ideally most things wouldn't be
[2025-06-09T16:36:50Z] <sad_plan> things being feature complete means things probably wont recieve much commits anymore. aside from an occional bug fix
[2025-06-09T16:36:52Z] <sad_plan> right
[2025-06-09T16:36:56Z] <midfavila> like when i used an x86 machine as a daily driver i had a little ~300 line assembly bootloader from like fifteen years ago
[2025-06-09T16:37:01Z] <midfavila> its featureset was that it loaded linux
[2025-06-09T16:37:13Z] <midfavila> i made a few minor tweaks to pass args to the kernel and it was ready to go
[2025-06-09T16:37:18Z] <sad_plan> I like that
[2025-06-09T16:37:31Z] <midfavila> maybe it's "dead" because it's old, or, just maybe, it's such a small scope that it's just done
[2025-06-09T16:37:34Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2025-06-09T16:37:38Z] <midfavila> that was when i still had a toughbook
[2025-06-09T16:37:45Z] <midfavila> it cold-booted to a login prompt in maybe a second
[2025-06-09T16:38:22Z] <midfavila> like by the time the display turned on it was at the prompt lol
[2025-06-09T16:38:32Z] <midfavila> that was such a wicked little machine
[2025-06-09T16:38:35Z] <sad_plan> dope. my laptop takes maybe 5 seconds. the pre-boot stuff takes fucking forever
[2025-06-09T16:38:40Z] <midfavila> rip
[2025-06-09T16:38:47Z] <sad_plan> dope
[2025-06-09T16:38:50Z] <midfavila> the mnt reform boots really quickly 
[2025-06-09T16:38:56Z] <midfavila> but the default debian image is
[2025-06-09T16:38:57Z] <midfavila> well
[2025-06-09T16:38:58Z] <midfavila> >debian
[2025-06-09T16:39:00Z] <sad_plan> it works though. suffecently if anything
[2025-06-09T16:39:30Z] <sad_plan> I get that. im patentitly waiting for the next to release, unless I get the pocket reform instead in the mean time
[2025-06-09T16:39:37Z] <midfavila> that's fair
[2025-06-09T16:39:53Z] <midfavila> i'm really excited to see where mnt goes but the newer hardware doesn't really appeal to me at all
[2025-06-09T16:39:56Z] <sad_plan> once people get their laptop, some issues is going to surface, and im not sure I wanna be a part of batch 1 really
[2025-06-09T16:40:07Z] <midfavila> i'm still using the OG reform with an imx8mq som
[2025-06-09T16:40:13Z] <sad_plan> I get that
[2025-06-09T16:40:29Z] <sad_plan> curious as to what their tablet will look like though
[2025-06-09T16:40:41Z] <midfavila> the other modules are way more powerful and sometimes efficient, to be sure, but there's always one or two little things that just bug me a liiiiittle bit
[2025-06-09T16:40:44Z] <midfavila> oh
[2025-06-09T16:40:45Z] <midfavila> there was a mockup i think
[2025-06-09T16:40:47Z] <midfavila> did you see that
[2025-06-09T16:40:50Z] <sad_plan> aswell as in terms of specs, batteries and so on and so forth
[2025-06-09T16:40:50Z] <midfavila> they made like, a prototype
[2025-06-09T16:40:59Z] <midfavila> i imagine they'll reuse their pocket hardware
[2025-06-09T16:41:14Z] <sad_plan> yeah it was a mockup made by tape or some stuff iirc
[2025-06-09T16:41:18Z] <sad_plan> probably
[2025-06-09T16:41:26Z] <midfavila> riteo: what was that open source handheld from vancouver you were looking at
[2025-06-09T16:41:37Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: yeaah
[2025-06-09T16:41:48Z] <midfavila> https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/mnt-touch-prototype-triptychon.jpg
[2025-06-09T16:42:06Z] <midfavila> recession hitting hard ig lol
[2025-06-09T16:42:32Z] <sad_plan> right. tape and cardboard iirc :p
[2025-06-09T16:42:34Z] <midfavila> it's a really cool device though
[2025-06-09T16:42:41Z] <midfavila> https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2025-04-14-april-update.html
[2025-06-09T16:42:45Z] <midfavila> they have a desktop on the way too
[2025-06-09T16:43:00Z] <midfavila> i'll probably just get a milk-v pioneer though
[2025-06-09T16:43:16Z] <sad_plan> would be sick to have a fully fledged linux machine in my pocket. although android mostly has this. android now has a VM, which can boot an actuall debian image. has support for som gui aswell
[2025-06-09T16:43:28Z] <midfavila> get a uconsole
[2025-06-09T16:43:31Z] <midfavila> >:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[2025-06-09T16:43:37Z] <sad_plan> im aware. saw some of the pictures earlier. looks sick
[2025-06-09T16:43:41Z] <sad_plan> whats the milk-v?
[2025-06-09T16:43:49Z] <midfavila> milk-v does risc-v hardware
[2025-06-09T16:43:56Z] <midfavila> the pioneer is their workstation 
[2025-06-09T16:43:59Z] <sad_plan> maybe. I have a phone, so im not sure i find much usecases for it honestly
[2025-06-09T16:44:06Z] <sad_plan> appart from toying with it that is
[2025-06-09T16:44:08Z] <sad_plan> dope
[2025-06-09T16:44:08Z] <midfavila> 64c risc-v box with 3 pcie slots
[2025-06-09T16:44:10Z] <midfavila> sata
[2025-06-09T16:44:20Z] <midfavila> dimm memory
[2025-06-09T16:44:21Z] <midfavila> etc
[2025-06-09T16:44:42Z] <sad_plan> ah, so its an actuall full pc. dope
[2025-06-09T16:44:46Z] <midfavila> if it's possible i'm going to put their mars-v som in the reform
[2025-06-09T16:44:59Z] <midfavila> then put my x86 machine in the closet as a build server
[2025-06-09T16:45:05Z] <midfavila> and virtualisation box
[2025-06-09T16:45:09Z] <sad_plan> neat
[2025-06-09T16:45:18Z] <midfavila> at that point it'll just be risc-v for me
[2025-06-09T16:45:22Z] <midfavila> ...and i guess arm in my pinenote
[2025-06-09T16:45:33Z] <sad_plan> wait, 2ghz risc-v cpu. damn. thats a lot more than I expected
[2025-06-09T16:45:50Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2025-06-09T16:46:01Z] <midfavila> there are demos online of the pioneer running games through steam too
[2025-06-09T16:46:05Z] <midfavila> both 2d and 3d
[2025-06-09T16:46:07Z] <sad_plan> jeff did a video on *the fasted* risc-v chip a while back, and it was dogshit slow
[2025-06-09T16:46:10Z] <sad_plan> sweet
[2025-06-09T16:46:22Z] <midfavila> i think the 3d demo was witcher 3?
[2025-06-09T16:46:54Z] <midfavila> and yeah it was slow on the pioneer but also worth remembering that it's running an x86_64 directx game through proton and dxvk and box64 in real time
[2025-06-09T16:46:58Z] <midfavila> :v
[2025-06-09T16:47:10Z] <sad_plan> think so. it bearly ran, but it did actualy boot up and run. which was pretty cool 
[2025-06-09T16:47:33Z] <midfavila> ptitSeb was the person behind that
[2025-06-09T16:47:46Z] <sad_plan> perhaps. I just recall seing the video
[2025-06-09T16:47:51Z] <midfavila> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UMUEM0gd34
[2025-06-09T16:48:10Z] <midfavila> really slow but honestly playable 
[2025-06-09T16:48:42Z] <midfavila> the stuff i do is all cpu bound and parallelisable anyway 
[2025-06-09T16:48:46Z] <midfavila> so, yeah
[2025-06-09T16:48:47Z] <midfavila> :p
[2025-06-09T16:48:55Z] <sad_plan> that was less worse than the one I saw by jeff. I think jeff had like 3 fps or something
[2025-06-09T16:49:05Z] <midfavila> when did you watch the demo?
[2025-06-09T16:49:24Z] <midfavila> because fwiw my uconsole has a 1c 1ghz cpu and it's still plenty sufficient for regular use
[2025-06-09T16:49:36Z] <midfavila> even with X and software rendering bc no gpu
[2025-06-09T16:49:58Z] <midfavila> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_fApiLERLI
[2025-06-09T16:50:07Z] <midfavila> you can play your genshin slop on it 
[2025-06-09T16:50:16Z] <midfavila> hoyoslop is the correct term i think
[2025-06-09T16:50:22Z] <midfavila> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHZs1Ic4jPY
[2025-06-09T16:50:25Z] <midfavila> ^hades demo
[2025-06-09T16:50:39Z] <sad_plan> I dont recall. not too long ago.
[2025-06-09T16:51:03Z] <midfavila> seems like a methodology error then
[2025-06-09T16:51:16Z] <sad_plan> hold on. i have to do some work. ill watch those videos in a bit
[2025-06-09T16:51:21Z] <midfavila> considering seb is able to get both 2d and 3d games to run at a playable rate
[2025-06-09T16:51:38Z] <midfavila> honestly hades is the bigger surprise for me than hoyoslop considering it's an action game
[2025-06-09T16:52:05Z] <midfavila> like it's not stuttering or anything 
[2025-06-09T16:52:13Z] <midfavila> not noticeably anyway
[2025-06-09T17:00:53Z] <sad_plan> that actually pretty sick. wouldve thought it wouldve been couple more years untill risc-v got to this point
[2025-06-09T17:02:37Z] <riteo> midfavila: I don't remember
[2025-06-09T17:02:59Z] <midfavila> tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk
[2025-06-09T17:03:02Z] <midfavila> TSK TSK TSK
[2025-06-09T17:03:04Z] <riteo> I think the pilet?
[2025-06-09T17:03:08Z] <riteo> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulscircuit/pilet-opensource-modular-portable-mini-computer
[2025-06-09T17:03:26Z] <midfavila> oh, ye
[2025-06-09T17:03:28Z] <riteo> I might have unironically searched "vancouver handheld computrer" on searx
[2025-06-09T17:03:29Z] <midfavila> that was the one
[2025-06-09T17:03:35Z] <midfavila> check that out sad_plan 
[2025-06-09T17:03:41Z] <riteo> (yes I wrote computrer)
[2025-06-09T17:03:51Z] <sad_plan> dope
[2025-06-09T17:03:54Z] <midfavila> ngl tho the port placement is shit
[2025-06-09T17:04:03Z] <sad_plan> I think ive seen it before. maybe riteo linked it earlier. look dope though
[2025-06-09T17:04:08Z] <riteo> yea I did
[2025-06-09T17:05:20Z] <sad_plan> I was thinkig of the mecha comet. not sure what kind of turd itll end up as though
[2025-06-09T17:05:41Z] <sad_plan> https://mecha.so/comet
[2025-06-09T17:06:32Z] <midfavila> hm
[2025-06-09T17:14:32Z] <sad_plan> I was looking at one of the uxn sites couple days ago aswell, and one of the devs just uses a rpi 3b on plan9. and a 7 inch screen as his main machine, mostly anyway.
[2025-06-09T17:14:34Z] <sad_plan> https://wiki.xxiivv.com/media/diary/718.jpg
[2025-06-09T17:14:36Z] <sad_plan> looks sick
[2025-06-09T17:14:43Z] <sad_plan> such a cute little setup
[2025-06-09T17:14:55Z] <sad_plan> theres even lego on the side there
[2025-06-09T17:15:50Z] <sad_plan> regards to uxn, if it hasnt been mentioned before, you should check it out for sure. 
[2025-06-09T17:18:42Z] <midfavila> yeah i've been on there a few times
[2025-06-09T17:18:44Z] <midfavila> 100r too
[2025-06-09T17:19:22Z] <midfavila> i'm so jealous of 100r
[2025-06-09T17:19:27Z] <midfavila> i would love to have a little houseboat
[2025-06-09T17:19:33Z] <midfavila> i'd have more space than on my flat lmao
[2025-06-09T17:19:39Z] <midfavila> in my flat even
[2025-06-09T17:19:41Z] <midfavila> holy shit
[2025-06-09T17:19:46Z] * midfavila facedesks
[2025-06-09T17:20:26Z] <midfavila> like imagine being able to just
[2025-06-09T17:20:32Z] <midfavila> decide you feel like living in a different city
[2025-06-09T17:20:43Z] <midfavila> and you don't even have to pack up or anything
[2025-06-09T17:21:03Z] <midfavila> you just sail along the coastline until you can dock in a berth over there
[2025-06-09T17:21:55Z] <midfavila> maybe the houseboat is the secret to being able to afford to live in canada
[2025-06-09T17:21:57Z] <midfavila> :thinking:
[2025-06-09T17:26:41Z] <midfavila> cheaper to own and operate a houseboat in toronto than to buy a little house lol
[2025-06-09T17:27:20Z] <sad_plan> I think thats a pretty decent alternative to lviing cheaply. cargo vans, or small vans in general would also be fairly cheap, but with vanlife gaining such a massive popularity, vans has gotten more expensive of the years
[2025-06-09T17:27:40Z] <midfavila> yeah but no fixed address
[2025-06-09T17:27:56Z] <midfavila> also i like having a shower and a washroom and such...
[2025-06-09T17:27:58Z] <sad_plan> I saw a video by krirsten dirkson on chanty boats. and his shitty boat/house was pretty awesome if you ask me
[2025-06-09T17:28:02Z] <sad_plan> I get that
[2025-06-09T17:28:13Z] <midfavila> i have a fren in britain who has a little houseboat
[2025-06-09T17:28:15Z] <sad_plan> ill give you the link in regards to the video i mentioned
[2025-06-09T17:28:36Z] <midfavila> he sails around between england, scotland, wales, NI, and RoI, and he's gone a little further out a few times too
[2025-06-09T17:28:38Z] <sad_plan> https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=OttgPFvGQYI
[2025-06-09T17:28:55Z] <midfavila> but tbqh i've basically given up on ever having a decent little property in canada :\
[2025-06-09T17:29:02Z] <sad_plan> dope
[2025-06-09T17:29:13Z] <midfavila> that sure was timing
[2025-06-09T17:29:14Z] <midfavila> lol
[2025-06-09T17:29:22Z] <sad_plan> with property prices and houseprices, I get that
[2025-06-09T17:29:26Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2025-06-09T17:29:29Z] <midfavila> it's not just that tbh
[2025-06-09T17:29:47Z] <midfavila> the median wage in canada has gone down by 50% over the past fifty years, only accounting for inflation
[2025-06-09T17:29:54Z] <midfavila> that ignores increased productivity 
[2025-06-09T17:30:17Z] <midfavila> then if you adjust for inflation the percentage of the average wage that it costs just to like, exist, is way higher now
[2025-06-09T17:30:40Z] <midfavila> i was talking to an older lady who's lived in my city most of her life and she said her son used to live in my unit waaaay back in the day
[2025-06-09T17:30:44Z] <midfavila> like 40-50 years ago
[2025-06-09T17:30:58Z] <midfavila> apparently rent for my place used to be like 30 a month all in
[2025-06-09T17:31:11Z] <midfavila> i pay 625 now which is still a phenomenal deal in my city :\
[2025-06-09T17:31:24Z] <midfavila> for a 140sqft/~13m2 flat
[2025-06-09T17:32:10Z] <midfavila> that's a cool little raft house thing
[2025-06-09T17:32:31Z] <midfavila> i wouldn't mind living in something like that
[2025-06-09T17:32:47Z] <sad_plan> that doesnt sound too bad of a price here. maybe a bit on the steep side, but doable. although take into accoun that our waes is quite a bit higher
[2025-06-09T17:32:56Z] <sad_plan> ikr, I really like his houseboat
[2025-06-09T17:33:07Z] <midfavila> wages are higher in Mississippi than in canada
[2025-06-09T17:33:07Z] <midfavila> :c
[2025-06-09T17:33:14Z] <midfavila> and prices are higher than california apparently
[2025-06-09T17:33:17Z] <midfavila> in terms of medians
[2025-06-09T17:33:32Z] <sad_plan> perhaps. theyre probably still shit in comparisson to scandinavia though
[2025-06-09T17:33:42Z] <midfavila> oh for sre
[2025-06-09T17:33:43Z] <midfavila> sure
[2025-06-09T17:34:00Z] <midfavila> i was talking to a danish fren the other day and she was complaining about the cost of living and stuff
[2025-06-09T17:34:03Z] <midfavila> (which tbf valid)
[2025-06-09T17:34:11Z] <midfavila> saying it was the worst in their recorded history and stuf
[2025-06-09T17:34:13Z] <midfavila> stuff
[2025-06-09T17:34:31Z] <midfavila> so i looked up the price of items i would usually get at the shops for a month and the cost of rent and stuff
[2025-06-09T17:34:36Z] <midfavila> and wages for like, a meh job
[2025-06-09T17:34:40Z] <midfavila> like a c-store clerk or something
[2025-06-09T17:34:44Z] <midfavila> basically a monthly budget
[2025-06-09T17:34:54Z] <midfavila> and their wages are like
[2025-06-09T17:34:56Z] <midfavila> double ours
[2025-06-09T17:35:01Z] <midfavila> and their CoL is lower
[2025-06-09T17:35:08Z] <midfavila> and taxes are comparable
[2025-06-09T17:35:19Z] <midfavila> ngl canada sucks
[2025-06-09T17:35:41Z] <sad_plan> not gonna argue with that. I do wanna visit canada though. 
[2025-06-09T17:35:43Z] <midfavila> it's like yeah okay i don't live in literally the congo or w/e but i can't even afford to get a table *and* boots
[2025-06-09T17:36:06Z] <sad_plan> sad state of affair tbqh really
[2025-06-09T17:36:08Z] <midfavila> i have to choose between an ikea table or workboots despite working full time with a college education >.>
[2025-06-09T17:36:16Z] * midfavila grumbles
[2025-06-09T17:36:30Z] <midfavila> if you're going to visit canada you should visit the east coast or quebec
[2025-06-09T17:36:35Z] <midfavila> the west coast is just america with healthcare
[2025-06-09T17:36:42Z] <midfavila> well, AB/SK are
[2025-06-09T17:36:47Z] <midfavila> idk about BC
[2025-06-09T17:36:59Z] <midfavila> MB and ON are "english canada"
[2025-06-09T17:37:33Z] <sad_plan> perhaps. I kinda wanna follow what someone I follow did. he trainhopped across canada. not that thats super unique, but trainhopping in europe is less of a thing than in the US and canada, aswell as mexico
[2025-06-09T17:37:44Z] <sad_plan> or hitchhike for that matter would also be cool
[2025-06-09T17:38:06Z] <midfavila> trainhopping isnt' really a thing in canada afaik?
[2025-06-09T17:38:11Z] <midfavila> on account of our trains basically not existing
[2025-06-09T17:38:13Z] <sad_plan> it for sure is
[2025-06-09T17:38:51Z] <sad_plan> train cops is activly looking for hoppers, so theire fore sure a thing.
[2025-06-09T17:38:57Z] <sad_plan> not as big as in US though I guess
[2025-06-09T17:39:30Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2025-06-09T17:39:31Z] <midfavila> maybe
[2025-06-09T17:41:29Z] <sad_plan> I was looking at trainmaps a while back, and it should technically be possible to hop from northern norway, all the way down to singapore
[2025-06-09T17:41:33Z] <sad_plan> which is quite a distance
[2025-06-09T17:42:42Z] <midfavila> that's crazy
[2025-06-09T17:44:18Z] <sad_plan> yeah. at the very least theres continous connected rail lines all the way, but I have no idea about the logistics here. theres several routes to take, some of which will give you a dead end :p
[2025-06-09T17:44:40Z] <midfavila> i just wish countries invested in proper mass transit
[2025-06-09T17:44:48Z] <midfavila> i shouldn't have to own a car to go to the next city ove
[2025-06-09T17:44:49Z] <midfavila> over
[2025-06-09T17:44:49Z] <midfavila> :c
[2025-06-09T17:44:59Z] <sad_plan> you can always hitch hike though
[2025-06-09T17:45:31Z] <midfavila> nobody here would let you lol
[2025-06-09T17:45:51Z] <midfavila> i've hitchhiked a few times in ontario or on the east coast but everyone here is super paranoid
[2025-06-09T17:45:53Z] <sad_plan> who wouldnt let you? hitch hiking in canada is very doable
[2025-06-09T17:45:59Z] <sad_plan> ah, I see
[2025-06-09T17:46:11Z] <sad_plan> some places are obviously harder
[2025-06-09T17:46:20Z] <sad_plan> spain for example is a terrible place to hitch
[2025-06-09T17:46:27Z] <sad_plan> whereas france its easy as pie
[2025-06-09T17:48:24Z] <midfavila> fair
[2025-06-09T17:51:37Z] <midfavila> oh go figure it's a dying thing because of gentrification
[2025-06-09T17:51:46Z] <midfavila> i hate rich people so much it's unreal
[2025-06-09T17:52:28Z] <sad_plan> not supprised
[2025-06-09T17:53:23Z] <midfavila> meant the houseboats fwiw but also hitchhiking too probably
[2025-06-09T17:53:42Z] <midfavila> honestly rich people just fucking suck
[2025-06-09T17:53:52Z] <midfavila> they take everything organic and make it a goddamn product
[2025-06-09T17:53:54Z] <midfavila> :|
[2025-06-09T17:54:07Z] <sad_plan> I know
[2025-06-09T17:54:41Z] <sad_plan> nikola tesla gave us free electricity, but no. he mustnt live. itll ruin someones economy
[2025-06-09T17:54:51Z] <sad_plan> some rich dude that is
[2025-06-09T17:54:52Z] <midfavila> think of THE LINE
[2025-06-09T17:55:07Z] <sad_plan> what line?
[2025-06-09T17:55:29Z] <midfavila> the GDP line
[2025-06-09T17:55:31Z] <midfavila> smdh
[2025-06-09T17:55:34Z] <sad_plan> right
[2025-06-09T22:23:04Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2025-06-09T22:23:05Z] <midfavila> i wonder
[2025-06-09T22:23:15Z] <midfavila> would any of you be interested in a kisslinux adjacent newsgroup?
[2025-06-09T22:23:22Z] <midfavila> probably not, eh?
[2025-06-09T22:46:14Z] <kris_> newsgroup?
[2025-06-09T23:02:36Z] <midfavila> on usenet
[2025-06-09T23:09:18Z] <midfavila> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[2025-06-09T23:09:23Z] <midfavila> you know...
[2025-06-09T23:09:38Z] <midfavila> if loap can use CGI...
[2025-06-09T23:09:54Z] <midfavila> ...I might be able to serve it over Gopher using gophernicus...
[2025-06-09T23:11:08Z] <midfavila> kiedtl|town: what's your take on that?
[2025-06-09T23:17:38Z] <kiedtl> Hm yeah, it could be rewritten to use CGI sure
[2025-06-09T23:17:56Z] <midfavila> i just think it would be super neat to get it running over gopher :3
[2025-06-09T23:18:04Z] <kiedtl> Agreed honestly
[2025-06-09T23:18:06Z] <midfavila> very kiss
[2025-06-09T23:18:17Z] <midfavila> i've considered trying to get invidious working over gopher too
[2025-06-09T23:20:54Z] <midfavila> i feel like most of what i use the web for can be done via gopher
[2025-06-09T23:20:59Z] <midfavila> that or some local program
[2025-06-09T23:24:32Z] <midfavila> >the year is 2045 >lennart has declared that systemd will drop support for browsing html4 and html5 and will only support AML (alphabet markup language) over QUIC >the three remaining KISS users have gone underground and formed a partisan resistance network aaginst the forces of Exxon-Walt Disney and the United States of Alphabet >all information is transferred over GopherS to avoid the Botnet:tm: