[2025-07-20T01:08:34Z] <midfavila> al-right, o-kay
[2025-07-20T01:08:48Z] <midfavila> good progress today, it's self-hosting for sure
[2025-07-20T01:08:54Z] <midfavila> have libressl and links and stuff up
[2025-07-20T01:09:09Z] <midfavila> tomorrow, X
[2025-07-20T01:09:19Z] <nooticer> libressl my beloved
[2025-07-20T01:09:40Z] <midfavila> bearssl soon 
[2025-07-20T01:09:43Z] <midfavila> = w=
[2025-07-20T01:12:07Z] <midfavila> honestly now that i have the basics sorted it's mostly just a matter of making some alterations to my build scripts so that they don't need kiss
[2025-07-20T01:12:10Z] <midfavila> which is easy enough
[2025-07-20T01:12:13Z] <midfavila> just tedious
[2025-07-20T01:13:54Z] <kris_> midfavila: bootstrapping from a kiss host with the tarball script?
[2025-07-20T01:15:45Z] <midfavila> you mean kiss-export, or..?
[2025-07-20T01:16:03Z] <midfavila> either way, no, this was bootstrapped by hand from a slack host
[2025-07-20T01:21:38Z] <sad_plan> kiss-export was removed a long time ago though. are you still going through with using pm midfavila ?
[2025-07-20T01:21:46Z] <midfavila> yeap
[2025-07-20T01:21:54Z] <midfavila> everything so far is done up using pm
[2025-07-20T01:22:16Z] <sad_plan> and just some wrapper scripts for it or how did you solve pm's missing bits?
[2025-07-20T01:22:18Z] <sad_plan> neat
[2025-07-20T01:22:33Z] <midfavila> tbqh i just didn't
[2025-07-20T01:22:38Z] <sad_plan> did you patch out libarchive?
[2025-07-20T01:22:38Z] <midfavila> the missing bits aren't really a problem
[2025-07-20T01:22:42Z] <midfavila> no, not yet
[2025-07-20T01:22:45Z] <midfavila> that's on the list
[2025-07-20T01:22:46Z] <sad_plan> ah, so you just do it manually instead?
[2025-07-20T01:22:50Z] <sad_plan> right
[2025-07-20T01:23:09Z] <midfavila> well, usually i just loop over everything and fetch sources in advance
[2025-07-20T01:23:30Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2025-07-20T01:23:34Z] <midfavila> then untar, cd, mkdir temproot, run the buildscript, and tar up the temproot 
[2025-07-20T01:23:50Z] <midfavila> then pm -a category-lang-package@version.number.tgz
[2025-07-20T01:24:02Z] <midfavila> then that pack gets stored under /var/db/packages
[2025-07-20T01:24:24Z] <sad_plan> you could do something like oasis' port repo does. not to be confused with oasis itself though. it handles shasums, and downloads for the sources for you. https://github.com/oasislinux/ports
[2025-07-20T01:24:31Z] <sad_plan> right
[2025-07-20T01:24:45Z] <midfavila> ngl i don't really think i need a script to do that
[2025-07-20T01:24:47Z] <midfavila> at least rn
[2025-07-20T01:25:37Z] <midfavila> it's just for p in * ; do cd $p ; for url in $(grep http sources) ; do wget $url ; done ; cd .. ; done 
[2025-07-20T01:26:42Z] <midfavila> add additional for loops for each category
[2025-07-20T01:26:49Z] <midfavila> e.g. data dev sys lib
[2025-07-20T01:26:50Z] <sad_plan> I suppose so. I like the format from this ports repo anyhow, for things not tracked by anything else. I just build gcc with it though. nothing else really. and its then prompty tracked by git instead
[2025-07-20T01:27:06Z] <midfavila> or another for core base x11 extra, etc etc
[2025-07-20T01:28:54Z] <sad_plan> how do you track dependencies though? even with only a few dependencies, it does quickly get tedious. atleast with rebuilds imo
[2025-07-20T01:29:28Z] <midfavila> everything in a broad category e.g. base expects everything from that broad category's lib/ to be installed, as well as previous "levels"
[2025-07-20T01:29:31Z] <midfavila> atm just core/
[2025-07-20T01:30:30Z] <midfavila> anything that's unusual i guess i would just put in a readme
[2025-07-20T01:30:35Z] <sad_plan> that doesnt really answer my question
[2025-07-20T01:30:43Z] <midfavila> but like, almost everything i have only depends on basic posix stuff
[2025-07-20T01:30:43Z] <midfavila> so
[2025-07-20T01:30:45Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2025-07-20T01:30:55Z] <midfavila> i guess a simpler answer would be "i don't"
[2025-07-20T01:31:06Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2025-07-20T01:31:40Z] <midfavila> i used to daily LFS in high school so between that and slackware it's not really something i'm uncomfortable with
[2025-07-20T01:33:13Z] <sad_plan> I suppose whatever floats your boat. I would hate having to specify the order of things to make things build in the correct order
[2025-07-20T02:14:27Z] <kris_> yeah no proper dependency resolution isnt something i personally would want to deal with
[2025-07-20T02:17:37Z] <midfavila> :3c
[2025-07-20T03:30:58Z] <sad_plan> dependency resolution becomes exponentially more complex as package count grows really.. hell, even dealing with just Xlibs for something as trivial as dmenu from scratch quickly grows into a headache :p
[2025-07-20T03:41:42Z] <nooticer> dependency resolution is easy if u don't use a bunch of slop
[2025-07-20T03:41:54Z] <nooticer> though most people use computers for the slop
[2025-07-20T03:44:13Z] <sad_plan> not having complex dependency resolutions gets difficult real quick if you wanna use your computer for anything worthwhile really. atleast for most people. I like to think I have a fairly simple system, (although I could have a simpler system) I still think I have somewhat complex dependencies..
[2025-07-20T03:44:30Z] <sad_plan> switching to wayland would surely decrease my complexity though
[2025-07-20T03:47:23Z] <nooticer> yea if u already use wayland slop (e.g. pipewire, dbus, xdg-desktop-portal, etc.)
[2025-07-20T03:47:42Z] <nooticer> s/wayland/redhat/
[2025-07-20T03:48:02Z] <sad_plan> I would not be using any of that C:
[2025-07-20T03:48:43Z] <nooticer> they're kinda hard to live without on wayland + lots of dependencies
[2025-07-20T03:48:57Z] <kris_> sad_plan: depends on how you look at it probably
[2025-07-20T03:49:14Z] <nooticer> kris_: r u krum
[2025-07-20T03:49:15Z] <kris_> you're getting simpler software with more cognitive load due to all of the random shit you need to make it work
[2025-07-20T03:49:26Z] <kris_> nooticer: yeah wtf i just pinged you to ask if you're who i think you are
[2025-07-20T03:49:45Z] <nooticer> yea i'm lenny
[2025-07-20T03:49:51Z] <kris_> tf gm
[2025-07-20T03:49:55Z] <kris_> didn't expect to see you here
[2025-07-20T03:50:06Z] <nooticer> i quit discord like 5 days ago and got bored
[2025-07-20T03:50:10Z] <sad_plan> nooticer: I disagree. just use velox, and you dont need any of that. hell even with sway, last time I checked, you dont need much of that really
[2025-07-20T03:50:16Z] <kris_> yeah i was wondering where you had gone
[2025-07-20T03:50:32Z] <kris_> sad_plan: ehhh you kinda need the portals and dbus
[2025-07-20T03:50:34Z] <nooticer> sad_plan: screen recording and stuff tho
[2025-07-20T03:50:39Z] <kris_> pipewire is negligible unless you want screen recording
[2025-07-20T03:50:43Z] <kris_> in which case you need it
[2025-07-20T03:50:53Z] <sad_plan> I dont care for screen recording
[2025-07-20T03:50:58Z] <nooticer> i use screen recording all the time so i rlly depend on xorg
[2025-07-20T03:51:00Z] <kris_> then keep chugging along with alsa or whatever it may be
[2025-07-20T03:51:04Z] <sad_plan> pretty sure I can get by with just alsa
[2025-07-20T03:51:17Z] <kris_> i screen record just fine via pipewire on sway
[2025-07-20T03:51:27Z] <kris_> only issue is that you can't pick a specific window to capture but thats a limitation of the wlr portal
[2025-07-20T03:51:30Z] <kris_> it works on all other portals
[2025-07-20T03:51:41Z] <sad_plan> I will keep using alsa, untill using alsa is a greater pain that using something else really :p
[2025-07-20T03:51:57Z] <sad_plan> right
[2025-07-20T03:51:58Z] <nooticer> if u use pipewire then u have to pull like 10 other dependencies
[2025-07-20T03:52:12Z] <sad_plan> so no pipewire for me then
[2025-07-20T03:52:12Z] <nooticer> there should be a drop in replacement for pipewire that just does screen recording
[2025-07-20T03:52:19Z] <kris_> would be nice
[2025-07-20T03:52:31Z] <kris_> though id still just use pipewire because it works well with whatever application i might be using
[2025-07-20T03:52:35Z] <kris_> pulseaudio didn't even manage that
[2025-07-20T03:53:02Z] <sad_plan> also, for my gui stack, its like <10 packages, but getting them is something along the lines of 140 packages in total. its ridiculous..
[2025-07-20T03:54:36Z] <kris_> i have quite a few
[2025-07-20T03:54:54Z] <kris_> sway + dbus + elogind + pipewire + gtk and wlr portals + waybar + fuzzel + few other minor things like fnott
[2025-07-20T03:57:18Z] <sad_plan> right. iirc, its actually 9 packages for me. glazier (my wm), tinyx, sxhkd, st, dmenu, cmus, mupdf and luakit. I do use surf sometimes aswell, but thats not too often
[2025-07-20T03:57:40Z] <sad_plan> oh, I forgot about wmutils
[2025-07-20T03:57:43Z] <sad_plan> so 10 actually
[2025-07-20T03:59:01Z] <nooticer> tinyx
[2025-07-20T03:59:05Z] <sad_plan> wait, I also use bgs for setting background. in any case, its very few. and current package cound using kiss, is 140. which is just stupid when you thin about it
[2025-07-20T03:59:10Z] <sad_plan> nooticer: yes
[2025-07-20T03:59:39Z] <nooticer> desktop?
[2025-07-20T03:59:50Z] <nooticer> i feel like tinyx would kill my laptop
[2025-07-20T04:00:22Z] <sad_plan> laptop. its terrible on higher resolutions really. my desktop had a ultrawide screen earlier before it broke, and tinyx was just awefull
[2025-07-20T04:01:01Z] <nooticer> ic
[2025-07-20T04:01:13Z] <sad_plan> nah, it just works. it isnt fast by any strech of imagination, but it works sufficently for wathcing series on mpv or through webbrowser. or just messing around with programming or scripting
[2025-07-20T04:01:55Z] <nooticer> i've been thinking about playing around with arcan
[2025-07-20T04:01:55Z] <sad_plan> best thing about it is that you can statically link it
[2025-07-20T04:02:13Z] <nooticer> can't u statically link xorg
[2025-07-20T04:02:17Z] <sad_plan> I fail to see any usecase for arcan really. theres basically no software for it
[2025-07-20T04:02:31Z] <sad_plan> you can, but you can only load one driver at a time or someting like that. 
[2025-07-20T04:02:46Z] <sad_plan> the sabotage guy did it ages ago
[2025-07-20T04:02:52Z] <sad_plan> as in sabotage linux
[2025-07-20T04:03:08Z] <sad_plan> his not doing it anymore, so theres someone else who runs the show now
[2025-07-20T04:03:24Z] <nooticer> sounds cool
[2025-07-20T04:03:45Z] <kris_> sad_plan: thoughts on crux?
[2025-07-20T04:03:53Z] <kris_> i don't think ive asked you that but i have asked quite a few here so
[2025-07-20T04:04:00Z] <sad_plan> they take a *less insane* approach now I suppose. as opposed to just disregard any sanity and just statically link everything
[2025-07-20T04:04:33Z] <sad_plan> kris_: never used crux myself, i know z3bra swears by it. I dont really see any benefit over kiss though
[2025-07-20T04:04:47Z] <sad_plan> perhaps bigger ports systems? if thats even a pro
[2025-07-20T04:04:53Z] <kris_> really the only benefit would be their huge repo
[2025-07-20T04:04:57Z] <kris_> and maybe their init
[2025-07-20T04:05:09Z] <kris_> kinda sucks that it's more or less glibc only
[2025-07-20T04:05:14Z] <kris_> easy to fix that though tbf
[2025-07-20T04:05:18Z] <nooticer> nvm arcan does look kinda cringe
[2025-07-20T04:05:36Z] <sad_plan> kris_: you can probably bootstrap crux with musl, but youre on your own :p
[2025-07-20T04:05:42Z] <sad_plan> nooticer: exacly
[2025-07-20T04:05:47Z] <kris_> it wouldnt be much effort
[2025-07-20T04:05:51Z] <kris_> just pulling patches from alpine or w/e
[2025-07-20T04:06:04Z] <sad_plan> wouldnt be much worse than just rolling your own kiss repo really
[2025-07-20T04:06:07Z] <kris_> im just looking at a bunch of shit rn
[2025-07-20T04:06:22Z] <kris_> ill try slackware in a vm at some point to satisfy midfavila but no dep resolution is ridiculous
[2025-07-20T04:06:31Z] <sad_plan> I agree
[2025-07-20T04:06:31Z] <kris_> it's not much more complex but makes the system so much less annoying to use once you want to actually use your computer
[2025-07-20T04:07:31Z] <sad_plan> exacly. I get that you can skip it if youre building a tiny chroot with just busybox or some shit, but for anything more complex than that I could not bare with no dependency resolution at all...
[2025-07-20T04:07:47Z] <kris_> my thing with both kiss and crux is that packages are built raw on the host in just a temp dir
[2025-07-20T04:07:52Z] <kris_> it would be cool to do it in a chroot instead of bwrap it maybe
[2025-07-20T04:07:58Z] <kris_> i know the tarball builds are isolated with bwrap
[2025-07-20T04:08:18Z] <sad_plan> theres been talk about that, but it never really came to fruition
[2025-07-20T04:08:39Z] <kris_> at some point i might try to implement it
[2025-07-20T04:08:53Z] <kris_> just really reading any of dylans shell script stuff is incredibly difficult
[2025-07-20T04:09:03Z] <kris_> not that its bad, it's anything but
[2025-07-20T04:09:08Z] <kris_> just can be hard to follow
[2025-07-20T04:09:25Z] <kris_> i figure kiss is simpler than something like birch though
[2025-07-20T04:09:27Z] <sad_plan> I kinda dont see the benefit, appart from perhaps avoiding *poisoning* packages by introducing dependencies not listed as a dependency
[2025-07-20T04:09:32Z] <kris_> basically that
[2025-07-20T04:09:43Z] <kris_> and trying to prevent projects from being sneaky by pulling things in from the internet during config
[2025-07-20T04:09:54Z] <kris_> though the fundamental issue is still just untrustworthy upstreams
[2025-07-20T04:10:17Z] <kris_> and also to make sure that when you build a package it's not a dirty build due to the host
[2025-07-20T04:10:23Z] <kris_> like if you've missed a dependency or something because your host has it installed
[2025-07-20T04:10:30Z] <sad_plan> most of this can more often than not be fixed by simply disabling every possible option you don want though
[2025-07-20T04:10:59Z] <kris_> its just a reasonable thing to want and doesnt make it much more complicated
[2025-07-20T04:11:15Z] <kris_> the kiss-utils tarball script already uses bwrap to keep the resulting rootfs tarball clean
[2025-07-20T04:11:57Z] <sad_plan> hm, didnt know that
[2025-07-20T04:11:58Z] <nooticer> just use trustworthy software
[2025-07-20T04:12:15Z] <sad_plan> fucking finally. next crew just arrived at work. time to go home and go to bed
[2025-07-20T04:12:21Z] <sad_plan> gn
[2025-07-20T04:12:23Z] <kris_> gn
[2025-07-20T04:12:26Z] <nooticer> gn
[2025-07-20T04:12:38Z] <kris_> nooticer: yeah that's the real solution but to me at least its still a good bump for not much more complex
[2025-07-20T04:13:29Z] <kris_> also i had meant to say maintainer-utils
[2025-07-20T04:13:30Z] <kris_> https://codeberg.org/kiss-community/maintainer-utils
[2025-07-20T05:45:33Z] <midfavila> kris_: you need to realise that the dependencies are just in your mind
[2025-07-20T05:45:35Z] <midfavila> there is no spoon
[2025-07-20T05:46:03Z] <midfavila> if you install *everything*,
[2025-07-20T05:46:07Z] <midfavila> then you need nothing
[2025-07-20T05:46:11Z] * midfavila nods sagely
[2025-07-20T05:48:43Z] <midfavila> also for anything super complex just use something like conty
[2025-07-20T05:48:55Z] <midfavila> or qemu if you want to really isolate crap
[2025-07-20T05:50:10Z] <midfavila> also re:tinyx it's fine
[2025-07-20T05:50:31Z] <midfavila> don't use it on multihead or >=1920x1080 machines
[2025-07-20T05:50:36Z] <midfavila> for optimal experience
[2025-07-20T05:52:38Z] <midfavila> although my reform is fhd and i don't usually have any issues so
[2025-07-20T05:52:42Z] <midfavila> ymmv
[2025-07-20T05:52:53Z] * kris_ puts slackware on the top shelf
[2025-07-20T05:53:03Z] <midfavila> f course, if you're a compulsive screen refroosher, maybe don't use it
[2025-07-20T05:53:11Z] * midfavila puts kris_ on top of slackware
[2025-07-20T05:53:18Z] <midfavila> now you're stuck
[2025-07-20T05:53:20Z] <midfavila> :3c
[2025-07-20T05:53:26Z] <kris_> atop a mountain of bloat
[2025-07-20T05:53:36Z] <midfavila> atop a mountain of comfy
[2025-07-20T05:55:04Z] <midfavila> mfw zoomzooms can't comprehend the ~zen~ of slack
[2025-07-20T05:55:52Z] <kris_> ill zen you
[2025-07-20T05:56:01Z] <midfavila> you wish
[2025-07-20T05:56:19Z] * midfavila holds kris_ back by putting his palm on kris' forehead
[2025-07-20T05:56:22Z] <midfavila> nerd
[2025-07-20T05:56:30Z] <midfavila> where's that clip of dark helmet when you need it
[2025-07-20T05:58:40Z] <kris_> from spaceballs? lmfao
[2025-07-20T05:58:46Z] <kris_> we aint found shit
[2025-07-20T05:58:54Z] <midfavila> https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=RI0i_tL-8aU&t=152
[2025-07-20T05:59:03Z] <midfavila> footage of kris vs mid
[2025-07-20T05:59:17Z] <kris_> i see your schwartz iz as big as mine
[2025-07-20T05:59:39Z] <kris_> i love this movie so much
[2025-07-20T05:59:49Z] <midfavila> #kisslinux should have a jitsi watch party for spaceballs 2
[2025-07-20T06:00:03Z] <kris_> maybe we'll finally get our lunchbox
[2025-07-20T06:00:12Z] <midfavila> we fucking better
[2025-07-20T06:01:47Z] <kris_> i dont think we will
[2025-07-20T06:01:56Z] <kris_> i think part of the agreement to make spaceballs was that they couldn't sell any spaceballs merch
[2025-07-20T06:02:15Z] <kris_> bootleg spaceballs lunchbox
[2025-07-20T06:04:34Z] <midfavila> it's hard to imagine how they're going to do the movie tho
[2025-07-20T06:04:40Z] <midfavila> considering all the actors are like
[2025-07-20T06:04:46Z] <midfavila> US president-aged
[2025-07-20T06:05:10Z] <midfavila> not to impugn them, i just dunno if they're gonna be jumping all over the place 
[2025-07-20T06:05:12Z] <kris_> i should be a wrapper named lonebar
[2025-07-20T06:05:20Z] <kris_> and idk we'll see
[2025-07-20T06:05:40Z] <midfavila> make a fortune file with spaceballs quotes
[2025-07-20T06:05:42Z] <midfavila> i wonder...
[2025-07-20T06:05:53Z] <midfavila> rieto where tf did you put the #kisslinux fortunes file
[2025-07-20T06:05:56Z] <midfavila> riteo
[2025-07-20T06:06:19Z] <kris_> i have riteo withdrawals
[2025-07-20T06:06:24Z] <midfavila> everyone does
[2025-07-20T06:06:25Z] <midfavila> :c
[2025-07-20T06:06:38Z] <midfavila> i need my silly little guy to tell me about silly little guy things
[2025-07-20T06:06:43Z] <midfavila> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[2025-07-20T06:07:54Z] <midfavila> ngl it's canon to me that spaceballs takes place in the same universe as star wars
[2025-07-20T06:08:03Z] <midfavila> but like the next system over or whatever
[2025-07-20T06:08:17Z] <kris_> midfavila: https://codeberg.org/kiss-community/community/src/branch/main/community/fortune/files/kiss
[2025-07-20T06:08:50Z] <midfavila> yess
[2025-07-20T06:08:56Z] <midfavila> excellent
[2025-07-20T06:09:09Z] <kris_> this is like all you
[2025-07-20T06:09:47Z] <midfavila> blame riteo
[2025-07-20T06:10:37Z] <kris_> >cankin it to wayland
[2025-07-20T06:12:38Z] <kris_> i usually have my bashrc run fortune every time i open a shell because it's cute
[2025-07-20T06:12:46Z] <kris_> i don't want midfavila randomly appearing in my terminal
[2025-07-20T06:13:07Z] <midfavila> midfavila jumpscare
[2025-07-20T06:15:18Z] * midfavila compresses kris_ into the fortunes file
[2025-07-20T06:15:30Z] <kris_> i'm an american dumbass i won't fit
[2025-07-20T06:15:44Z] <kris_> sorry- i'm an american, dumbass
[2025-07-20T06:15:49Z] <kris_> punctuation and shit
[2025-07-20T06:15:59Z] <midfavila> >i'm an american dumbass
[2025-07-20T06:16:01Z] <midfavila> snrk
[2025-07-20T06:16:17Z] <midfavila> giggle, even
[2025-07-20T06:16:25Z] <midfavila> a chuckle, if we're being indulgent
[2025-07-20T06:16:44Z] <midfavila> just ban you from borgir for a bit it'll be fine
[2025-07-20T06:17:00Z] <kris_> i ate myself a microwaved pre-packaged cheeseburger from 7-11 earlier
[2025-07-20T06:17:51Z] <kris_> https://codeberg.org/kiss-community/community/src/branch/main/community/fortune/files/fortune
[2025-07-20T06:17:53Z] <kris_> also this is kinda cool
[2025-07-20T06:18:55Z] <midfavila> everything we do is kinda cool
[2025-07-20T06:20:24Z] <kris_> i think im using the typical normal fortune
[2025-07-20T06:24:49Z] <midfavila> aaaaaaa god it's so weird to think that some of those quotes are from like 3-4 years ago
[2025-07-20T06:24:58Z] <midfavila> i was still in college
[2025-07-20T06:25:04Z] <kris_> :p
[2025-07-20T06:25:15Z] <kris_> i look at things i did 4 years ago and i'm like
[2025-07-20T06:25:20Z] <kris_> "damn, it's ONLY been 4 years?"
[2025-07-20T06:25:40Z] <kris_> though honestly it's kind of meaningless
[2025-07-20T06:25:44Z] <kris_> DMT type beat
[2025-07-20T06:25:48Z] <midfavila> i mean yeah
[2025-07-20T06:25:54Z] <midfavila> everything is fuckin fried
[2025-07-20T06:26:05Z] <kris_> i havent been able to really experience time progression since someone drugged me with DMT
[2025-07-20T06:26:14Z] <kris_> at least not in the same way
[2025-07-20T06:26:34Z] <midfavila> isnt dmt that super fukin crazy shit that makes you see god 
[2025-07-20T06:26:50Z] <kris_> it's like, the psychedelic consumers final destination once they think they're prepared for it
[2025-07-20T06:27:12Z] <kris_> was the first one i ever did, on accident obviously hence the >got drugged thing
[2025-07-20T06:27:46Z] <midfavila> i can only imagine how that would have gone down holy fucking shit :v
[2025-07-20T06:27:56Z] <kris_> i mean
[2025-07-20T06:28:04Z] <kris_> i was smoking weed with this one guy for like a full year daily so i trusted him
[2025-07-20T06:28:09Z] <kris_> he hands me a vape and i think absolutely nothing of it
[2025-07-20T06:28:16Z] <kris_> he timed it perfectly for when i got off the schoolbus too
[2025-07-20T06:28:28Z] <kris_> so i'm walking off and starting to trip and get off the bus and just bop on the noggin
[2025-07-20T06:28:36Z] <kris_> bop on the noggin with tripping sack i mean
[2025-07-20T06:28:44Z] <midfavila> that's fucked 
[2025-07-20T06:28:45Z] <kris_> i never spoke to that guy again
[2025-07-20T06:28:53Z] <midfavila> yeah i mean definitely
[2025-07-20T06:28:54Z] <kris_> even if it was the most beautiful thing ive ever experienced, consent with that is #1
[2025-07-20T06:29:08Z] <kris_> and maybe not while im on the schoolbus lmao
[2025-07-20T06:29:11Z] <kris_> fucking jackass that one was
[2025-07-20T06:30:40Z] <midfavila> yeh
[2025-07-20T06:31:11Z] <kris_> but yeah to sum it up it's kind of difficult for me to understand it now because during that i was exposed to an environment where time just didnt exist outside of a physical concept
[2025-07-20T06:31:31Z] <kris_> i dont want to sound like one of those dorks who act like it's some sort of revelation though, it fucked me up 
[2025-07-20T06:31:53Z] <kris_> kinda just always >right now
[2025-07-20T06:32:19Z] <kris_> at the same time though it feels like the right now can extend for forever so hence the "it's only been 4 years??"
[2025-07-20T06:33:42Z] <kris_> midfavila: what do you think about perl
[2025-07-20T06:34:20Z] <midfavila> python for boomers
[2025-07-20T06:34:24Z] <midfavila> it's in the fortunes file
[2025-07-20T06:38:12Z] <kris_> ok mid what languages do you like
[2025-07-20T06:38:20Z] <midfavila> forth
[2025-07-20T06:38:26Z] <midfavila> scheme
[2025-07-20T06:38:40Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2025-07-20T06:39:10Z] <midfavila> i like basic as like, a *statement*, if not a tool 
[2025-07-20T06:39:49Z] <kris_> mmmmmm bash
[2025-07-20T06:39:51Z] * kris_ licks his lips
[2025-07-20T06:47:38Z] <midfavila> aaaaaaaaaaaaa i hate how expensive whey protein is
[2025-07-20T06:47:45Z] <kris_> fuck out the whey
[2025-07-20T06:48:03Z] <midfavila> wut
[2025-07-20T06:48:07Z] <midfavila> oh
[2025-07-20T06:48:08Z] <midfavila> pun
[2025-07-20T06:48:11Z] * midfavila facedesks
[2025-07-20T06:49:05Z] <midfavila> related
[2025-07-20T06:49:09Z] <midfavila> one thing i hate?
[2025-07-20T06:49:23Z] <midfavila> the fact that stores that sell by weight are more expensive than those that sell discrete units 
[2025-07-20T06:49:32Z] <midfavila> like, significantly
[2025-07-20T06:49:41Z] <midfavila> :|
[2025-07-20T06:49:57Z] <midfavila> *let* me get all my stuff in my jars and bags and such
[2025-07-20T06:50:01Z] <midfavila> instead of plastic
[2025-07-20T06:51:47Z] <kris_> hemp plastic
[2025-07-20T06:51:53Z] <kris_> i'll actually pay more money for hemp plastic things
[2025-07-20T06:52:16Z] <midfavila> hemp in general needs to be more common
[2025-07-20T06:52:26Z] <midfavila> i have 100% hemp bed sheets, they rock
[2025-07-20T06:54:42Z] <kris_> im just a little bit surprised just *how much stuff* can be made out of hemp
[2025-07-20T06:55:31Z] <midfavila> it's a very versatile plant, yeah
[2025-07-20T06:55:41Z] <midfavila> food, clothing, paper, building materials of all sorts
[2025-07-20T06:55:45Z] <kris_> truly a gift
[2025-07-20T06:55:47Z] <midfavila> plastics
[2025-07-20T06:55:49Z] <midfavila> medicine
[2025-07-20T06:56:02Z] <midfavila> all using less land and water than cotton, and far more quickly and reliably
[2025-07-20T06:56:15Z] <midfavila> and it enriches the soil 
[2025-07-20T06:56:52Z] <kris_> some people in my family grew hemp for a little bit but it ended up burning them
[2025-07-20T06:56:59Z] <kris_> most of them have always grown tobacco right
[2025-07-20T06:57:05Z] <kris_> and hemp cant be taken across certain state lines
[2025-07-20T06:57:08Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2025-07-20T06:57:09Z] <kris_> so they ended up wasting a season on it
[2025-07-20T06:57:31Z] <kris_> i might grow ..flavored hemp at some point myself given it's 100% allowed
[2025-07-20T06:57:39Z] <kris_> im curious what i could make out of the undesireable bits
[2025-07-20T06:57:47Z] <midfavila> define unddesirable 
[2025-07-20T06:57:47Z] <kris_> like make on my own i mean
[2025-07-20T06:57:50Z] <midfavila> undesirable even
[2025-07-20T06:57:50Z] <kris_> stem and leaves
[2025-07-20T06:58:05Z] <midfavila> stem and leaves can just be pulped
[2025-07-20T06:58:18Z] <midfavila> beyond that, i doubt much
[2025-07-20T06:58:27Z] <kris_> pulped for what
[2025-07-20T06:58:30Z] <midfavila> paper
[2025-07-20T06:58:33Z] <kris_> o
[2025-07-20T06:58:41Z] <kris_> i wonder how hard it would be to make paper out of hemp stems myself
[2025-07-20T06:58:51Z] <kris_> could be somewaht interesting
[2025-07-20T06:59:17Z] <midfavila> idk it's just fibrous plant matter finely blended with water and then pressed and dried in the sun or w/e
[2025-07-20T06:59:20Z] <midfavila> i'm not a paper-maker 
[2025-07-20T06:59:24Z] <kris_> ill look into it
[2025-07-20T06:59:24Z] <midfavila> but it seems easy enough
[2025-07-20T06:59:28Z] <kris_> our garden is getting huge 
[2025-07-20T06:59:40Z] <midfavila> i wish i had a garden
[2025-07-20T06:59:44Z] <midfavila> plant potatoes
[2025-07-20T06:59:47Z] <midfavila> hell yeah
[2025-07-20T06:59:50Z] <kris_> we have a bunch of shit
[2025-07-20T06:59:54Z] <kris_> the mint is taking over the garden though
[2025-07-20T06:59:56Z] <kris_> it spreads so rapidly
[2025-07-20T07:00:08Z] <kris_> jalapenos, two tomato plants, mint, basil, few other things
[2025-07-20T07:00:09Z] <kris_> bell peppers
[2025-07-20T07:00:17Z] <kris_> the plants are just getting really large
[2025-07-20T07:01:11Z] <midfavila> i would save so much money if i had a garden
[2025-07-20T07:01:15Z] <midfavila> bell peppers are unreal 
[2025-07-20T07:01:21Z] <midfavila> like in regards to cost
[2025-07-20T07:01:25Z] <kris_> not a big fan of them
[2025-07-20T07:01:34Z] <midfavila> stuff them
[2025-07-20T07:01:34Z] <kris_> i'm a sucker for jalapenos though, one of my favorite flavors
[2025-07-20T07:01:35Z] <midfavila> :3c
[2025-07-20T07:01:40Z] <midfavila> jalapenos suck
[2025-07-20T07:01:43Z] <kris_> ??????????
[2025-07-20T07:01:44Z] <midfavila> they don't taste like anything
[2025-07-20T07:01:44Z] <kris_> u suck
[2025-07-20T07:01:48Z] <kris_> they totally do
[2025-07-20T07:01:50Z] <midfavila> they're the white sugar of spice
[2025-07-20T07:01:58Z] <kris_> habaneros are the shit ones
[2025-07-20T07:02:02Z] <midfavila> habaneros are way better what
[2025-07-20T07:02:03Z] <midfavila> fuck you
[2025-07-20T07:02:05Z] <kris_> they taste like they look
[2025-07-20T07:02:12Z] <kris_> i already know if something is orange im gonna hate it
[2025-07-20T07:02:34Z] <kris_> i hate the taste of orange
[2025-07-20T07:02:56Z] <kris_> midfavila: honestly ghost peppers don't taste like much but the flavor they do have is pretty nice
[2025-07-20T07:02:59Z] <kris_> i like to get ghost pepper cheese
[2025-07-20T07:03:04Z] <kris_> hoffmans to be specific
[2025-07-20T07:03:46Z] <midfavila> ghost peppers are nice
[2025-07-20T07:03:50Z] <midfavila> i've had those uhhh
[2025-07-20T07:03:56Z] <midfavila> pakis ghost pepper tortilla chips before
[2025-07-20T07:04:02Z] <midfavila> they're delicious
[2025-07-20T07:05:22Z] <kris_> those seem artificially hot to me
[2025-07-20T07:05:44Z] <midfavila> they're definitely quite hot, artificial or not
[2025-07-20T07:05:49Z] <midfavila> but super yummy
[2025-07-20T07:06:03Z] <midfavila> it's kinda trashy but there's this place in my city that's like
[2025-07-20T07:06:10Z] <midfavila> liquidation world but for food?????????????
[2025-07-20T07:06:17Z] <midfavila> ???????
[2025-07-20T07:06:18Z] <kris_> it just depends for me 
[2025-07-20T07:06:22Z] <midfavila> so you can go in and get like
[2025-07-20T07:06:26Z] <kris_> i dont like it when things get so hot that it actually like fucks me up bad
[2025-07-20T07:06:33Z] <kris_> actual ghost pepper? fine
[2025-07-20T07:06:39Z] <kris_> most of the things advertised as that are like concentrate
[2025-07-20T07:06:46Z] <kris_> tastes like shit and is agony to eat
[2025-07-20T07:06:49Z] <midfavila> restaurant-size stuff that's still sealed and cheaper than consumer grade
[2025-07-20T07:06:52Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2025-07-20T07:06:53Z] <midfavila> maybe
[2025-07-20T07:07:00Z] <midfavila> idk i don't find them that spicy
[2025-07-20T07:07:02Z] <midfavila> the chips i mean
[2025-07-20T07:07:51Z] <midfavila> man my dietitian last i spoke to them said i should eat more salmon but it's so fucking expensive
[2025-07-20T07:08:00Z] <midfavila> 12.50 for a pound
[2025-07-20T07:08:53Z] <midfavila> that's one thing i miss about new brunswick
[2025-07-20T07:09:07Z] <midfavila> the farmers market had a fishmonger who would fillet salmon on the spot for you for like 14/kg
[2025-07-20T07:24:56Z] <kris_> i feel like salmon is a vegetable
[2025-07-20T07:26:52Z] <midfavila> explain
[2025-07-20T07:28:09Z] <kris_> i just feel like ive eaten a vegetable after i eat salmon
[2025-07-20T07:29:10Z] <midfavila> skill issue
[2025-07-20T07:29:25Z] <midfavila> speaking of skill issues holy shit grocery prices went up again
[2025-07-20T07:29:49Z] <midfavila> literally just some frozen fruit and veg and some chicken and pollock and shit
[2025-07-20T07:29:54Z] <midfavila> milk and eggs and yogurt and bread etc
[2025-07-20T07:29:59Z] <midfavila> 450$
[2025-07-20T07:30:01Z] * midfavila dies
[2025-07-20T07:30:50Z] <kris_> i fucking love fried pollock
[2025-07-20T07:30:59Z] <kris_> and yeah its ridiculous how expensive groceries are now
[2025-07-20T07:31:02Z] <kris_> its time to just >own chickens
[2025-07-20T07:31:05Z] <kris_> and just >own some plants
[2025-07-20T07:31:15Z] <midfavila> imagine owning the means of production
[2025-07-20T07:31:17Z] <kris_> cant wait until tomatoes that can reproduce are illegal
[2025-07-20T07:31:43Z] <midfavila> i would rent a plot but the nearby community garden rents out these shitty little ones for like 100CAD a month
[2025-07-20T07:32:02Z] <midfavila> god
[2025-07-20T07:32:09Z] <midfavila> I FUCKING HATE THAT WE WON'T RAISE INTEREST RATES
[2025-07-20T07:32:15Z] <midfavila> CRANK THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS HOLY SHIT
[2025-07-20T07:32:36Z] <midfavila> i don't CARE about people's fucking mortgages because I'M THE ONE PAYING IT
[2025-07-20T07:32:52Z] <midfavila> if they lose their house i don't fucking care
[2025-07-20T07:32:56Z] <midfavila> im so done 
[2025-07-20T07:34:06Z] <kris_> idk our rent is pretty not bad
[2025-07-20T07:34:12Z] <kris_> and we have a yard that we can kinda just plant things in
[2025-07-20T07:34:48Z] <midfavila> america's economy is significantly less turbofucked than canada's
[2025-07-20T07:35:00Z] <midfavila> canada is like
[2025-07-20T07:35:05Z] <midfavila> right before 2008,
[2025-07-20T07:35:09Z] <midfavila> except worse
[2025-07-20T07:40:22Z] <nooticer> fr canada is so cooked
[2025-07-20T07:41:03Z] <midfavila> are you from canada also, nooticer?
[2025-07-20T07:43:21Z] <nooticer> nah but i have a few canadian acquaintances
[2025-07-20T07:43:43Z] <midfavila> fair
[2025-07-20T07:44:04Z] <midfavila> yeah i've had to move across the country just to afford shit and like
[2025-07-20T07:44:14Z] <midfavila> in the past year so many things have just doubled in price
[2025-07-20T07:44:16Z] <midfavila> it's insane
[2025-07-20T07:46:36Z] <nooticer> wonder what caused it
[2025-07-20T07:46:57Z] <midfavila> low interest rates and housing speculation
[2025-07-20T07:47:00Z] <midfavila> that's literally it
[2025-07-20T07:47:15Z] <midfavila> all of our money goes to servicing household debt 
[2025-07-20T07:47:31Z] <midfavila> and because interest rates are insanely low people can "afford" to take on seven figures 
[2025-07-20T07:47:51Z] <midfavila> especially because "the line goes up which means the bigger the house i get the bigger the payoff"
[2025-07-20T07:48:04Z] <midfavila> but nobody ever seems to realise you need to actually *sell* your house to make your money back
[2025-07-20T07:48:46Z] <midfavila> combine that with the TFW programme to import workers and effectively chain their residency to their job, and you have multiple generations of youth with no access to serious employment,
[2025-07-20T07:49:02Z] <midfavila> and the fact that over the past 50 years, adjusted for inflation, real wages have been cut in half...
[2025-07-20T07:49:05Z] <midfavila> yeha
[2025-07-20T07:49:05Z] <midfavila> yeah*
[2025-07-20T07:49:17Z] <nooticer> what about home equity n stuff
[2025-07-20T07:50:09Z] <midfavila> doesn't mean shit
[2025-07-20T07:50:16Z] <midfavila> it's all imaginary money until someone buys your house
[2025-07-20T07:50:26Z] <midfavila> like if you buy your house for 500k 
[2025-07-20T07:50:31Z] <nooticer> true
[2025-07-20T07:50:32Z] <midfavila> and you pay off so it's 450k
[2025-07-20T07:50:37Z] <midfavila> and the house goes up to 600k
[2025-07-20T07:50:42Z] <midfavila> in theory you have 150k in equity
[2025-07-20T07:50:53Z] <midfavila> in practice, all that means is that you can borrow 150k against your house
[2025-07-20T07:51:01Z] <midfavila> because nobody can afford to buy
[2025-07-20T07:51:06Z] <nooticer> usually the government is good with imaginary money tho
[2025-07-20T07:51:08Z] <midfavila> so it's just a game of hot potao 
[2025-07-20T07:51:13Z] <midfavila> potato*
[2025-07-20T08:14:14Z] <kris_> curse of ra
[2025-07-20T17:39:10Z] <sad_plan> omg, Ive been trying to get conty to work for a really long time really, not that ive been making much effort for it, but it turns out it requires PROC_SYSCTL in the kernel...
[2025-07-20T17:54:01Z] <asimov> welcome to my life
[2025-07-20T17:54:14Z] <asimov> a lot of things dont work and probably is kernel settings
[2025-07-20T17:58:17Z] <sad_plan> yeah thats not something new for me really. but things been working just fine for quite a while now. my system is more or less stable now
[2025-07-20T17:59:28Z] <asimov> mine too
[2025-07-20T17:59:44Z] <asimov> but still missing things that i need sometimes
[2025-07-20T17:59:54Z] <asimov> screensharing
[2025-07-20T18:00:08Z] <asimov> and some programs
[2025-07-20T18:00:38Z] <sad_plan> dont care much for that, so thats a non-issue for me really. I got more or less what I want running initially anyway. theres obviosly some room for improvements though
[2025-07-20T18:03:40Z] <asimov> the main problem for me is just calibre and audio software
[2025-07-20T18:03:51Z] <asimov> those things are too big for kiss
[2025-07-20T18:04:04Z] <asimov> and i think Reaper don't run in musl
[2025-07-20T18:04:24Z] <asimov> and i need xwayland shit to run it on flatpak that is a sad news when i discover it
[2025-07-20T18:04:24Z] <sad_plan> just use conty
[2025-07-20T18:05:01Z] <asimov> yeah thats not the main problem
[2025-07-20T18:05:05Z] <asimov> flatpak just works too
[2025-07-20T18:05:13Z] <sad_plan> conty is simpler
[2025-07-20T18:05:29Z] <sad_plan> and you can have flatpak inside conty, and simply avoid the dependencies on your system
[2025-07-20T18:05:36Z] <asimov> some ever tested this on kiss? https://github.com/dockur/windows
[2025-07-20T18:06:26Z] <sad_plan> unlikely
[2025-07-20T18:06:41Z] <sad_plan> we dont like windows here
[2025-07-20T18:09:15Z] <sad_plan> I also dont think theres been too much success running docker in general on kiss
[2025-07-20T18:09:31Z] <sad_plan> i do recall there were a repo about it though. but its been dead for years now
[2025-07-20T18:13:00Z] <sewn> burn docker
[2025-07-20T18:13:06Z] <sewn> circlejerk project
[2025-07-20T18:14:31Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2025-07-20T18:49:35Z] <midfavila> >windows
[2025-07-20T18:49:38Z] <midfavila> did you mean: wine?
[2025-07-20T18:51:08Z] <midfavila> having coffee with oatmeal for breakfast, feels good to just take it easy 
[2025-07-20T18:51:31Z] <midfavila> my buddy who was visiting left behind some coffee creamer so i used that instead of milk as a little treat
[2025-07-20T18:51:45Z] <midfavila> chocolate-mint creamer with chocolate-raspberry flavoured coffee
[2025-07-20T18:51:50Z] <midfavila> kind of cursed but it tastes decent
[2025-07-20T18:52:17Z] <midfavila> i think i prefer my yirgacheffe though
[2025-07-20T18:53:18Z] <midfavila> with just a splash or two of cream or a nice high-quality milk, and a couple teaspoons of sweetener...
[2025-07-20T18:56:16Z] <sad_plan> I think he means actuall windows. inside docker
[2025-07-20T19:02:04Z] <asimov> yeah
[2025-07-20T19:02:08Z] <asimov> i dont like windows
[2025-07-20T19:02:20Z] <asimov> but some programs need it
[2025-07-20T19:02:33Z] <asimov> wine still too bad for compatibility in some cases
[2025-07-20T19:02:43Z] <asimov> and yeah i hate docker too
[2025-07-20T19:04:02Z] <asimov> but sometimes you have to painfully forget the hate
[2025-07-20T19:05:36Z] <sewn> so you use windows asimov
[2025-07-20T19:05:42Z] <sewn> its not hard to dual boot
[2025-07-20T19:05:48Z] <sewn> that or kvn
[2025-07-20T19:19:06Z] <midfavila> kvm always
[2025-07-20T19:19:09Z] <midfavila> dual booting is annoying
[2025-07-20T19:19:58Z] <midfavila> then run cygwin/x on the windows vm so you can forward your host server and have the vm's clients draw to it
[2025-07-20T19:20:01Z] * midfavila nods sagely
[2025-07-20T19:20:03Z] <midfavila> miminalism
[2025-07-20T19:20:09Z] <sewn> sagely??
[2025-07-20T19:20:19Z] <sewn> how can you nod a tea
[2025-07-20T19:20:19Z] <midfavila> like a sage
[2025-07-20T19:20:28Z] <midfavila> >sage
[2025-07-20T19:20:29Z] <midfavila> >tea
[2025-07-20T19:20:34Z] * midfavila squints at sewn
[2025-07-20T19:20:39Z] <sewn> mrrp
[2025-07-20T19:20:52Z] <midfavila> when are you going to be a sergal
[2025-07-20T19:20:55Z] <midfavila> you're sergal-coded
[2025-07-20T19:21:09Z] <sewn> what's a sergal
[2025-07-20T19:21:52Z] <midfavila> https://wp.vilous.net/2017/02/09/sergal-reference/
[2025-07-20T19:39:39Z] <sewn>  ew
[2025-07-20T19:47:28Z] <midfavila> what
[2025-07-20T19:47:32Z] <midfavila> they're fuzzy shark aliens
[2025-07-20T19:47:36Z] <midfavila> they're neat
[2025-07-20T19:47:50Z] <sewn> okay mr. baaaaa
[2025-07-20T19:48:04Z] <midfavila> don't be speciesist
[2025-07-20T19:48:06Z] <midfavila> :c
[2025-07-20T21:56:52Z] <sewn> ralsei