[2025-08-29T01:59:30Z] <midfavila> EliSoli "beginner" and "good" are mutually exclusive
[2025-08-29T01:59:40Z] <midfavila> mastery of anything takes time
[2025-08-29T02:00:08Z] <midfavila> of course, people might have different proficiencies, but beginners in a given field are, i would argue, ill equipped to judge the proficiency of others
[2025-08-29T02:00:17Z] <midfavila> on account of their own status as beginners
[2025-08-29T02:01:04Z] <midfavila> maybe start out as a study group or something, instead of jumping into "like suckless but X"
[2025-08-29T02:01:34Z] <midfavila> of course, also feel free to tell me to fuck off if you want, but that's just my two cents
[2025-08-29T17:45:23Z] <sad_plan> EliSoli: what languages are you looking for in any case? i can mostly handle myself with sh/rc, but im not really good with C or anything. I consider myself a beginner in C anyhow. do I fit the bill in this case? :p
[2025-08-29T17:51:36Z] <sad_plan> its also like midfavila said, what you say youre looking for is contradictive. good devs, but also beginners. beginners are not good devs by any stretch of the imagination :')
[2025-08-29T18:06:28Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: have you read K&R yet?
[2025-08-29T19:12:54Z] <midfavila> https://hackaday.com/2024/10/02/mikrophone-open-secure-simple-smartphone/
[2025-08-29T19:12:57Z] <midfavila> this is neat
[2025-08-29T19:13:37Z] <midfavila> OSHWA phone with a simple custom OS running a RISC-V SoC with a breakout for an iMX8mq like the one you can put in the reform
[2025-08-29T19:32:57Z] <midfavila> https://www.wiphone.io/
[2025-08-29T19:32:59Z] <midfavila> there's also this
[2025-08-29T19:33:26Z] <midfavila> honestly i might just say screw it and get a wiphone
[2025-08-29T19:33:33Z] <midfavila> i want to get voip through sdf anyway since it's way cheaper
[2025-08-29T19:35:26Z] <midfavila> oh wait they designed an lte module
[2025-08-29T19:39:15Z] <midfavila> https://www.wiphone.io/RC_Car.html
[2025-08-29T19:39:18Z] <midfavila> >you can make it a car
[2025-08-29T19:39:24Z] <midfavila> this is the power of open source!!!
[2025-08-29T19:39:30Z] <midfavila> propriechuds forever btfo'd
[2025-08-29T20:21:22Z] <dery> uhhhhh that looks neat!
[2025-08-29T20:21:40Z] <dery> and the LTE module is relatively an issue cause you can always get a lil lte soap
[2025-08-29T20:21:49Z] <dery> and bring it along
[2025-08-29T20:21:56Z] <midfavila> yeah but i don't WANT TO >:C
[2025-08-29T20:21:58Z] <dery> I wonder though, midfavila, does it support custom protocols?
[2025-08-29T20:22:04Z] <midfavila> well, all the software is open source
[2025-08-29T20:22:15Z] <midfavila> so you can just write an implementation 
[2025-08-29T20:22:19Z] <dery> I mean VoIP is nice but if it's still unencrypted it's kinda moot imo
[2025-08-29T20:22:37Z] <dery> even just... telegram *shudders*, would be infinitely useful
[2025-08-29T20:22:56Z] <midfavila> i'm getting this purely because work wants me to have a phone 
[2025-08-29T20:23:04Z] <midfavila> and i need a number to receive texts from like, my credit union
[2025-08-29T20:23:29Z] <dery> ohhhh right so with VoIP you can still have a number but not rely on cell service, got it
[2025-08-29T20:23:33Z] <dery> damn that's elegant
[2025-08-29T20:23:39Z] <dery> why don't phones do that in the first place
[2025-08-29T20:23:42Z] <dery> compatibility?
[2025-08-29T20:24:00Z] <midfavila> because then your carrier wouldn't be able to charge you hundreds of dollars a year for the pleasure of talk and text service
[2025-08-29T20:24:14Z] <dery> that really says a lot doesn't it
[2025-08-29T20:24:20Z] <midfavila> that's capitalism
[2025-08-29T20:24:27Z] <dery> we got the possibility of contacting every point of the globe for mere pennies
[2025-08-29T20:24:39Z] <dery> and still need to pay a crapton for long distance calls
[2025-08-29T20:24:53Z] <dery> I mean, realtively, EU calls are covered in my plan 8)
[2025-08-29T20:25:23Z] <dery> but yea I should not cheer too much since we got lucky and got a carrier that disenshittified the market
[2025-08-29T20:25:38Z] <dery> before 2015 or something there were only outrageously expensive plans
[2025-08-29T20:25:50Z] <midfavila> canada has some of the most expensive telco plans in the world
[2025-08-29T20:25:53Z] <midfavila> so
[2025-08-29T20:25:57Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2025-08-29T20:26:09Z] <dery> then a french company named Iliad took advantage of a merger and broke into the market with crazy low prices and no sudden changes in plans
[2025-08-29T20:26:26Z] <dery> I talked with some german people and they still have the crappy prices so I think we italians got EXTREMELY lucky
[2025-08-29T20:26:36Z] <midfavila> even germans have amazing prices relatve to canada
[2025-08-29T20:26:46Z] <dery> and they suck lemme tell ya
[2025-08-29T20:26:51Z] <midfavila> when i was looking at the cost of living in germany i was astonished
[2025-08-29T20:26:57Z] <midfavila> you can get basic home internet for 15 euro 
[2025-08-29T20:27:01Z] <midfavila> like 20/20
[2025-08-29T20:27:02Z] <dery> damn I really dislike being negative you know that
[2025-08-29T20:27:11Z] <dery> I'm like, terribly sweetly positive
[2025-08-29T20:27:30Z] <dery> but it really looks like america (canada and us) are the capitalist hellscape that they say it is
[2025-08-29T20:27:44Z] <dery> I kinda downplay most things cause stereotypes and stuff
[2025-08-29T20:27:47Z] <dery> but holy shit
[2025-08-29T20:27:50Z] <midfavila> the more i learn about other countries the more it seems that way
[2025-08-29T20:28:14Z] <dery> well yea I can confirm the 15 euro thing
[2025-08-29T20:28:23Z] <dery> Iliad sells FTTH with leased router for 20 bucks
[2025-08-29T20:28:26Z] <dery> although it's a promotion
[2025-08-29T20:28:28Z] <midfavila> the cheapest home internet plan you can get from a main carrier here is like
[2025-08-29T20:28:30Z] <dery> maybe more like 25
[2025-08-29T20:28:34Z] <midfavila> 50$+ a month
[2025-08-29T20:28:39Z] <midfavila> in some regions the cheapest plan is closer to 80
[2025-08-29T20:28:58Z] <midfavila> when i was in NB i was with bell and they were charging me 80 a month for their absolute cheapest plan which was 50/50
[2025-08-29T20:29:14Z] <dery> 50/50 mbits?
[2025-08-29T20:29:17Z] <midfavila> yes
[2025-08-29T20:29:17Z] <dery> not sure what that means sorry
[2025-08-29T20:29:21Z] <dery> oh I see
[2025-08-29T20:29:26Z] <midfavila> uplink and downlink bandwidth
[2025-08-29T20:29:43Z] <dery> well if that makes you feel better we're currently paying 50 euros a month for a plan from the expensive old carriers
[2025-08-29T20:29:49Z] <dery> and it's even slower than FTTH
[2025-08-29T20:30:03Z] <dery> although we have asymmetric lines here
[2025-08-29T20:30:13Z] <dery> nominal speed for FTTC is 200/20 or something
[2025-08-29T20:30:21Z] <dery> while fiber is something akin to 1000/50 IIRC
[2025-08-29T20:30:25Z] <dery> on that scale still
[2025-08-29T20:30:52Z] <dery> so shitty carriers are more common than you think
[2025-08-29T20:31:33Z] * dery pats mid
[2025-08-29T20:31:39Z] <midfavila> bweh
[2025-08-29T20:31:47Z] <midfavila> i'm just glad the government operates an ISP in saskatchewan
[2025-08-29T20:31:52Z] <midfavila> they do a good job
[2025-08-29T20:31:55Z] <dery> oh that's cool!
[2025-08-29T20:32:06Z] <dery> it's almost as if public services actually serviced the
[2025-08-29T20:32:07Z] <dery> public
[2025-08-29T20:32:13Z] <midfavila> everyone still complains because TO BE HONEST people in saskatchewan are kind of sheltered and don't travel outside the provinec
[2025-08-29T20:32:16Z] <midfavila> province
[2025-08-29T20:32:22Z] <midfavila> so they have no point of reference against the rest of the country
[2025-08-29T20:32:37Z] <midfavila> but like, the government ISP sasktel is so nice
[2025-08-29T20:32:46Z] <dery> there's always hope
[2025-08-29T20:32:50Z] <dery> except with US politics
[2025-08-29T20:32:55Z] <midfavila> they have stable prices, built out all the telco infra in the region, and their quality of service is really, really good
[2025-08-29T20:32:58Z] <dery> I think it's pretty universally recognized that they're FUBAR
[2025-08-29T20:33:13Z] <midfavila> like on an LTE connection i get around 30ms of ping, and it's *consistent*
[2025-08-29T20:33:31Z] <midfavila> whereas on telus' network, another major carrier, i get closer to 75 +-20ms
[2025-08-29T20:33:46Z] <midfavila> i live in the city centre too so it's not like the nearest tower is miles away
[2025-08-29T20:34:41Z] <dery> that's really nice :D
[2025-08-29T20:34:45Z] <dery> more government stuff
[2025-08-29T20:34:47Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2025-08-29T20:34:55Z] <dery> like fiber became goverment owned, I think
[2025-08-29T20:34:56Z] <midfavila> plus sasktel doesn't wake me up at 4am trying to sell me insurance
[2025-08-29T20:35:04Z] <dery> 53% of shares of our local fiber company are from the government
[2025-08-29T20:35:09Z] <dery> no idea about the actual technical term
[2025-08-29T20:35:19Z] <midfavila> and when i need service or to pay a bill i just... go in, do it, and the don't try to sell me shit or anything
[2025-08-29T20:35:21Z] <dery> "local", I mean, the one which came here
[2025-08-29T20:35:34Z] <dery> holy based
[2025-08-29T21:04:22Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: Ive read parts of it, but not the whole book, no. I have several different C books, and Im terrible at reading books really, so its going rather slow for me :p
[2025-08-29T21:04:44Z] <midfavila> you should do like
[2025-08-29T21:04:46Z] <midfavila> a chapter or two a wek
[2025-08-29T21:04:48Z] <midfavila> week
[2025-08-29T21:11:15Z] <sad_plan> yeah, I should really be more.. whats the word again.. motivated? no, structured perhaps. I keep getting sucked into other things, and when im off work for the week, I usually do other stuff. most of my linux stuff goes on while at work
[2025-08-29T21:11:33Z] <sad_plan> but yeah, a chapter a week is not an unreasonable pace
[2025-08-29T21:11:54Z] <sad_plan> also, interesting phones you linked
[2025-08-29T21:12:27Z] <sad_plan> although, the mikrokrophone.. its just a board? no screen or anything? is it just not complete yet?
[2025-08-29T21:18:36Z] <dery> BTW I had the same issue with K&R
[2025-08-29T21:18:46Z] <dery> like, I can't find the will to go through it
[2025-08-29T21:18:54Z] <dery> maybe because I already have experience with C dunno
[2025-08-29T21:19:17Z] <dery> I don't consider myself a master C programmer as I've touched a crapton of stuff, including a lot of C++ due to godot
[2025-08-29T21:19:25Z] <dery> but I get annoyed quite fast unfortunately
[2025-08-29T21:20:43Z] <sad_plan> k&r doesnt have the best rep iirc. i think people find it hard to read. im not sure. ive started reading several other books, or do tutorials online. all the times I mostly get a good rythm, but when im back at work the next week, I just do something else
[2025-08-29T21:20:46Z] * sad_plan shrugs
[2025-08-29T21:26:04Z] <midfavila> K&R is fine
[2025-08-29T21:26:29Z] <midfavila> it's tricky if it's the first programming textbook you've read but the preface explicitly says that the book is targeted at people who already have some experience with other languages
[2025-08-29T21:26:49Z] <midfavila> thus it assumes a lot of distantly related background knowledge is present
[2025-08-29T21:27:12Z] <midfavila> like knowing some details about hardware, or the differences between datatypes, or some basic concepts about algorithms and data structures
[2025-08-29T21:27:40Z] <midfavila> if you're a beginner and you don't have any exposure to those concepts, it will be a lot harder to go through K&R, not because of C but because of the examples C is applied to
[2025-08-29T21:31:06Z] <sad_plan> sounds about right ^
[2025-08-29T22:32:35Z] <midfavila> yeah i think i'll get a wiphone 
[2025-08-29T22:32:57Z] <midfavila> it seems the closest to what i want, and the 4G board seems viable 
[2025-08-29T22:33:08Z] <midfavila> at least in the future
[2025-08-29T22:33:20Z] <midfavila> but we'll see how i cope with just the wiphone
[2025-08-29T22:34:40Z] <midfavila> gonna have a good little set of gadgets tbqh
[2025-08-29T22:34:56Z] <midfavila> reform, uconsole, pinenote, wiphone, tangara
[2025-08-29T22:35:07Z] <midfavila> basically covers all my needs
[2025-08-29T22:35:14Z] <sad_plan> yeah. looks like a neat project. not for me personally, atleast not atm. the thought of having a *dumpphone*, or a linux phone is at the very least appealing
[2025-08-29T22:35:46Z] <sad_plan> did you buy the tangara, or are you just currently eying it?
[2025-08-29T22:35:52Z] <midfavila> i have a tangara in my pocket rn
[2025-08-29T22:35:54Z] <midfavila> it's great
[2025-08-29T22:35:57Z] <sad_plan> awesome
[2025-08-29T22:36:07Z] <midfavila> there are a few hardware and software bugs but they're not a huge issue
[2025-08-29T22:36:10Z] <midfavila> build quality is good
[2025-08-29T22:36:18Z] <midfavila> it's a little chunky but i'm not complaining
[2025-08-29T22:36:22Z] <midfavila> it feels good in the hand
[2025-08-29T22:36:28Z] <midfavila> really easy to load music on it
[2025-08-29T22:36:29Z] <sad_plan> ive been considering getting a specific device for my music, but I dont really see any benefit for it, in my current usecase anyhow. 
[2025-08-29T22:36:32Z] <sad_plan> nice
[2025-08-29T22:36:45Z] <midfavila> the benefit is getting rid of your smartphone
[2025-08-29T22:36:54Z] <midfavila> also apparently the tangara can drive up to like 300ohm headphones or something 
[2025-08-29T22:37:36Z] <midfavila> i would love to make a pair of OSHW headphones but they're all expensive and seem relatively fragile
[2025-08-29T22:38:05Z] <midfavila> https://koss.com/en-ca/products/pro4aa
[2025-08-29T22:38:09Z] <midfavila> just going to get these instead 
[2025-08-29T22:41:35Z] <sad_plan> I currently dont have a need for getting rid of it. I atleast feel like a got a good handle on my smartphone usage. but sure, it could obviously be less
[2025-08-29T22:42:03Z] <sad_plan> cool headphones. I do mostly just run earplugs instead. easier on my ears I suppose. maybe one day ill get proper earphones
[2025-08-29T22:42:37Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: you might like the wiphone's lora module actually
[2025-08-29T22:42:40Z] <midfavila> now that i think about it
[2025-08-29T22:42:49Z] <sad_plan> I had the portapro version when I was in school. they were really terrible tbh. lol
[2025-08-29T22:42:52Z] <sad_plan> ill have a look
[2025-08-29T22:43:03Z] <midfavila> yeah the portapros don't look comfortable at all
[2025-08-29T22:44:42Z] <sad_plan> theyre awefull really. they were for some reason really popular back when I was in school. they dont isolate for shit, and everyone else can also hear your music, which coincedentally now annoys everyone :p
[2025-08-29T22:45:15Z] <sad_plan> so regarding the lora module, its just expands the phones range, did I get it right?
[2025-08-29T22:45:20Z] <midfavila> no
[2025-08-29T22:45:35Z] <midfavila> it adds lora capability as a carrier medium for calls
[2025-08-29T22:45:49Z] <midfavila> so you can call other lora-enabled devices instead of just relying on VoIP via wifi
[2025-08-29T22:46:09Z] <sad_plan> oh, right. I did read that earlier, now that you mention it
[2025-08-29T22:46:30Z] <sad_plan> so without it, its basically a wifi-only device with voip only capability?
[2025-08-29T22:46:47Z] <midfavila> yes, correct
[2025-08-29T22:46:57Z] <midfavila> it relies on expansion boards for other features 
[2025-08-29T22:48:33Z] <sad_plan> that sounds somewhat ironic, with the idea of a phone should make you available everywhere. but I suppose in this day and age where wifi is redundant, and everyone is consooooooming as you put it, I suppose this is a breath of fresh air, if anything
[2025-08-29T22:49:01Z] <midfavila> here's the thing
[2025-08-29T22:49:04Z] <midfavila> i don't use my phone
[2025-08-29T22:49:07Z] <midfavila> at all
[2025-08-29T22:49:16Z] <midfavila> i'm not getting a dumbphone for muh digital detox reasons
[2025-08-29T22:49:33Z] <sad_plan> yeah, ive kinda gathered that over the years
[2025-08-29T22:49:38Z] <midfavila> i'm getting a dumbphone because it's cheaper long-term, by a significant margin, than "keeping up with the joneses"
[2025-08-29T22:49:50Z] <sad_plan> youve been adamant about not having a phone more or less the whole time iirc
[2025-08-29T22:50:06Z] <midfavila> yes
[2025-08-29T22:50:15Z] <sad_plan> i recall you even mentioning you wanted a landphone instead of a mobile phone even
[2025-08-29T22:50:21Z] <midfavila> correct
[2025-08-29T22:50:30Z] <sad_plan> did you drop that idea entierly, or is this still something youd consider?
[2025-08-29T22:50:39Z] <midfavila> landlines are prohibitively expensive
[2025-08-29T22:50:47Z] <sad_plan> so no then
[2025-08-29T22:50:52Z] <midfavila> correct
[2025-08-29T22:50:57Z] <sad_plan> right
[2025-08-29T22:50:58Z] <midfavila> the wiphone is the best solution 
[2025-08-29T22:51:10Z] <sad_plan> the wiphone had a lot of modules. damn
[2025-08-29T22:51:21Z] <midfavila> aside from perhaps working on getting VoIP or LTE working on the uconsole which would still be neat
[2025-08-29T22:51:27Z] <midfavila> but now would be less of a priority
[2025-08-29T22:52:45Z] <midfavila> going to pack up and head home
[2025-08-29T22:52:46Z] <midfavila> bbl
[2025-08-29T22:53:55Z] <sad_plan> I suppose using th uconsole as a phone would be cool too. and seeing as you dont really need to be online, or rather available all the time, and dont care for it either, the batterylife on the uconsole wouldnt be much of an issue either I suppose
[2025-08-29T22:54:17Z] <sad_plan> although getting a dedicated *phone* might be benefitial in some instances
[2025-08-29T22:54:19Z] <sad_plan> cya
[2025-08-29T23:43:23Z] <midfavila> the uconsole's battery life is fine
[2025-08-29T23:43:32Z] <midfavila> it's like 8ish hours active
[2025-08-29T23:43:39Z] <midfavila> under light load
[2025-08-29T23:43:54Z] <midfavila> but yeah