[2025-09-07T01:36:14Z] <evahasarrived> goodnight kiss linux
[2025-09-07T01:44:13Z] <dery> night :D
[2025-09-07T07:07:15Z] <midfavil1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdcX1ghOkFM
[2025-09-07T07:07:43Z] <midfavil1> honestly this makes it seem pretty easy to just slap some shit together...
[2025-09-07T07:07:51Z] <midfavil1> maybe i could just make my own pocket computer
[2025-09-07T08:27:05Z] <sad_plan> neat
[2025-09-07T10:06:25Z] <midfavil1> i've just discovered that the rasp pi zero requires proprietary software
[2025-09-07T10:06:29Z] * midfavil1 screams into the void
[2025-09-07T10:06:48Z] <midfavil1> monumentally disappointing
[2025-09-07T10:16:11Z] <midfavil1> i fucking hate that the uconsole ended up just being another raspberry pi device aaaa
[2025-09-07T10:25:16Z] <sad_plan> disappointing indeed.  seeing as rpi is often times seen as the gold standard, it should for sure be better than this...
[2025-09-07T10:25:37Z] <sad_plan> however, does this cover zero w 2 aswell?
[2025-09-07T10:25:41Z] <midfavil1> yes
[2025-09-07T10:25:44Z] <midfavil1> rpi has always been shit
[2025-09-07T10:26:00Z] <midfavil1> they've always required this sort of thing and i don't know why i expected better
[2025-09-07T10:26:03Z] <midfavil1> :|
[2025-09-07T10:27:18Z] <sad_plan> hm. what specifically does require proprietary software though? gpu drivers? wifi drivers?
[2025-09-07T10:27:49Z] <midfavil1> the wifi drivers, yeah
[2025-09-07T10:27:52Z] <midfavil1> and the gpu apparently
[2025-09-07T10:28:59Z] <sad_plan> hm, shame. and theres no reverse engineered foss drivers for these at all?
[2025-09-07T10:29:14Z] <midfavil1> no
[2025-09-07T10:29:38Z] <sad_plan> disappointing indeed really
[2025-09-07T10:29:40Z] <midfavil1> the vc4 is apparently part of the soc package with the cpu and requires proprietary software to be loaded before the system can even turn on
[2025-09-07T10:29:52Z] <midfavil1> it's not an OS-level thing
[2025-09-07T10:30:04Z] <midfavil1> so not something you can just "reverse engineer" easily
[2025-09-07T10:30:08Z] <sad_plan> ah, so its outside of the OS entierly?
[2025-09-07T10:30:15Z] <midfavil1> yes
[2025-09-07T10:31:10Z] <midfavil1> https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/38585/raspberry-pi-zero-usable-with-fully-free-software
[2025-09-07T10:31:46Z] <midfavil1> the bigger issue is for the wifi
[2025-09-07T10:32:06Z] <midfavil1> i can tolerate pre-OS shit that's isolated from the main CPU. like, even the reform uses a blob to initialise its RAM
[2025-09-07T10:32:13Z] <midfavil1> on the imx8mq som
[2025-09-07T10:33:43Z] <midfavil1> then again i doubt the r01 is free of these issues so i'll probably just end up sucking it up
[2025-09-07T10:34:04Z] <sewn> where midfavila
[2025-09-07T10:34:06Z] <sewn> who midfavil1 
[2025-09-07T10:34:21Z] * midfavil1 muzzles sewn
[2025-09-07T10:34:25Z] <midfavil1> too tired for sewn
[2025-09-07T10:34:25Z] <sewn> waaaaa
[2025-09-07T10:35:00Z] <midfavil1> i did find something neat though
[2025-09-07T10:35:08Z] <midfavil1> there's an esp32 based SoM in the cm4 form factor
[2025-09-07T10:35:16Z] <midfavil1> cm3 sorry
[2025-09-07T10:35:31Z] <sad_plan> hm, the top answer says it meets fsf's requirements though, so its a non-issue for them even
[2025-09-07T10:35:52Z] <midfavil1> wait, no, there's not. they cancelled the esp32 som
[2025-09-07T10:35:54Z] <midfavil1> that's a shame
[2025-09-07T10:36:28Z] <sad_plan> > My understanding is that the GPU bootstraps the CPU and loads a kernel into it. Although the kernel can be anything, including linux, which in its vanilla form meets the FSF's standards for free/libre open source software, the firmware required for the GPU is from closed source.
[2025-09-07T10:36:43Z] <sad_plan> while yes, the gpu run proprietary firmware
[2025-09-07T10:37:49Z] <midfavil1> and the wifi chipset requires stuff too apparently
[2025-09-07T10:37:54Z] <sad_plan> bios also uses proprietary firmware
[2025-09-07T10:38:26Z] <sad_plan> from the artichle he linked, it seems to be the case with other sbc's aswell. non-free wifi and gpu
[2025-09-07T10:39:40Z] <midfavil1> the problem is that userspace and kernelspace shit that isn't free makes my life a living fucking hell
[2025-09-07T10:40:09Z] <midfavil1> i don't want to hunt down kernel patches and firmware locked behind NDAs and use your stupid shitass gcc 4 toolchain that's super fucking special
[2025-09-07T10:40:21Z] <midfavil1> the uconsole has given me enough of that
[2025-09-07T10:40:24Z] <sad_plan> well, ideally it would all be free, but we dont live in a paradice now do we
[2025-09-07T10:40:29Z] <sad_plan> lol, I get that
[2025-09-07T10:40:30Z] <midfavil1> okay but
[2025-09-07T10:40:32Z] <midfavil1> counterpoint
[2025-09-07T10:40:36Z] <midfavil1> i literally don't care
[2025-09-07T10:41:06Z] <sad_plan> neither do they
[2025-09-07T10:42:07Z] <midfavil1> "Boards based on the Broadcom VideoCore 4 family, such as the Raspberry Pi, require non-free software to startup, although signature checks are not enforced. A free proof-of-concept replacement firmware has been developed, but it is not in a usable state, and development has halted. Until the non-free startup program is fully freed, these boards are useless in the free world."
[2025-09-07T10:42:13Z] <midfavil1> https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers
[2025-09-07T10:42:38Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2025-09-07T10:44:21Z] <midfavil1> honestly just give me a fuckin zero replacement that uses a mali gpu and has a single pcie lane so i can put an ath9k in there 
[2025-09-07T10:44:38Z] <midfavil1> i can work with 256 or even 128mb of ram and a single gig of emmc 
[2025-09-07T10:46:44Z] <sad_plan> you can use ath10 now iirc, with the avx210. its faster
[2025-09-07T10:46:51Z] <sad_plan> i think its ath10, I dont remember
[2025-09-07T10:47:02Z] <sad_plan> its the one used in mnt pocket reform now
[2025-09-07T10:47:04Z] <midfavil1> i don't much care for performance
[2025-09-07T10:47:10Z] <midfavil1> but yeah i think the ath10k is doable
[2025-09-07T10:47:15Z] <midfavil1> pretty sure that's what's in my reform
[2025-09-07T10:47:20Z] <sad_plan> I get that, but its just an option if anything
[2025-09-07T10:47:26Z] <midfavil1> my primary concern is low cost and ease of repair
[2025-09-07T10:47:48Z] <midfavil1> performance is a distant like, fifth place, after user experience and portability 
[2025-09-07T11:13:43Z] <sad_plan> I can value low cost and ease of repair really. I do however appreaciate performance. atleast more than you do. im probably less uncompromising than you are :p
[2025-09-07T11:14:33Z] <sad_plan> I didnt take much of those things into account when I built my new desktop. I had a vision, which I fullfilled really, and im really happy about the build
[2025-09-07T11:15:00Z] <sad_plan> my main concern was mostly compatability with linux
[2025-09-07T11:17:26Z] <midfavil1> my thing is, i can't afford to waste money faffing about with bespoke parts, and i'm tired of having to wait for third parties to cooperate with community development efforts
[2025-09-07T11:17:29Z] <midfavil1> so like
[2025-09-07T11:17:32Z] <midfavil1> yeah
[2025-09-07T11:24:39Z] <sad_plan> I get that. parts arent cheap, and theyre getting more expensive. maybe next laptop/dekstop will take this stuff more into consideration. atleat laptop. I really do like the idea of the reform next, but I also do like the framework stuff. although theyre less exciting than mnt's stuff..
[2025-09-07T11:28:05Z] <midfavil1> https://pine64.com/product/soquartz-4gb-compute-module-w/
[2025-09-07T11:28:25Z] <midfavil1> have to wonder if this could be hacked into the beepis replacement for the beepberry
[2025-09-07T11:29:13Z] <midfavil1> if it doesn't need wifi firmware that would be a huge step up
[2025-09-07T11:29:50Z] <midfavil1> uses mainline linux, regular uboot...
[2025-09-07T11:30:33Z] <midfavil1> someone got it to work in the reform 
[2025-09-07T11:30:39Z] <midfavil1> using the cm4 adapter board
[2025-09-07T11:32:05Z] <midfavil1> noooooooooooooo...
[2025-09-07T11:32:12Z] <midfavil1> it does require proprietary firmware
[2025-09-07T11:33:11Z] <sad_plan> for what?
[2025-09-07T11:36:34Z] <midfavil1> wifi\
[2025-09-07T11:39:30Z] <sad_plan> cant you bypass thechnically with a dongle instead?
[2025-09-07T11:39:55Z] <sad_plan> i know it would still be there, but you could disable it on kernel, or OS
[2025-09-07T11:40:26Z] <midfavil1> that sort of defeats the point of using a device like the beepy
[2025-09-07T11:40:45Z] <midfavil1> >let me carry around a dongle and antenna that are together bigger than the device itself 
[2025-09-07T11:40:52Z] <midfavil1> might as well just use my laptop
[2025-09-07T11:41:56Z] <sad_plan> I dont disagree. just looking for solutions
[2025-09-07T11:42:05Z] <sad_plan> can you desolder the wifichip though? :P
[2025-09-07T11:43:56Z] <midfavil1> also defeats the point
[2025-09-07T11:44:04Z] <midfavil1> i want my cake and i want to eat it too
[2025-09-07T11:46:02Z] <sad_plan> I get that. in this case, youd have to compromise it seems. unless you find something else that also works