[2025-10-15T00:02:03Z] <dery> eventually
[2025-10-15T13:00:11Z] <elisoli> :p
[2025-10-15T13:52:01Z] <kris_> :p
[2025-10-15T13:54:28Z] <sewn> :3
[2025-10-15T15:47:30Z] <midfavila> the reform lives again
[2025-10-15T16:53:52Z] <kris_> midfavila: what happened to it?
[2025-10-15T16:53:53Z] <midfavila> hinges broke a while ago
[2025-10-15T16:53:53Z] <midfavila> so the top half of the machine was flopping around 
[2025-10-15T16:54:03Z] <midfavila> replaced 'em this morning, took all of five minutes
[2025-10-15T16:54:07Z] <midfavila> good as new now
[2025-10-15T16:54:12Z] <kris_> hopefully it was reasonably priced
[2025-10-15T16:54:21Z] <midfavila> it was unfortunately not
[2025-10-15T16:54:56Z] <kris_> not surprising
[2025-10-15T16:54:57Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2025-10-15T16:55:00Z] <midfavila> it was the shipping that got me
[2025-10-15T16:55:07Z] <midfavila> the parts themselves were only 20 euro 
[2025-10-15T16:55:13Z] <midfavila> but shipping was like 40-50euro 
[2025-10-15T16:55:15Z] <kris_> id have gone to a hardware store and picked up some normal ass hinges and bolted them on or osmething
[2025-10-15T16:55:27Z] <midfavila> that's what i was going to do but i didn't want to fuckin drill into the chassis
[2025-10-15T16:55:40Z] <midfavila> i would have had to cut it up too
[2025-10-15T16:56:26Z] <midfavila> the hinges are like... so they're on the side of a "body" that's basically just cosmetic
[2025-10-15T16:56:26Z] <midfavila> which means the hinge mounts are actually inside the two chassis halves
[2025-10-15T16:56:26Z] <midfavila> using regular hinges would have left two great gaping holes in the bottom chassis
[2025-10-15T16:57:06Z] <kris_> what OS do you use on the reform out of curiosity
[2025-10-15T16:57:23Z] <kris_> it seems very underpowered
[2025-10-15T16:57:29Z] <kris_> regardless of configuration
[2025-10-15T16:57:59Z] <midfavila> i'm still using the stock debian 
[2025-10-15T16:57:59Z] <midfavila> also, that's bullshit
[2025-10-15T16:57:59Z] <midfavila> i'll fight you on that
[2025-10-15T16:58:00Z] <midfavila> the higher-end modules have like 8+ cores and 32g of ram
[2025-10-15T16:58:00Z] <midfavila> also also
[2025-10-15T16:58:00Z] <kris_> 8 cores doesnt mean much if they're slow
[2025-10-15T16:58:02Z] <midfavila> what the hell are you doing on a laptop where that isn't enough
[2025-10-15T16:58:04Z] <midfavila> they aren't!!!!!!!!!!!
[2025-10-15T16:58:17Z] <midfavila> i'm using the original imx8mq module with 4g of ram and it's *fine*
[2025-10-15T16:58:19Z] <kris_> and i'm an arm/riscv hater in laptops/desktops ngl
[2025-10-15T16:58:27Z] <midfavila> you're cringe and don't get to have computer opinions
[2025-10-15T16:58:31Z] <kris_> ily
[2025-10-15T16:58:35Z] <midfavila> you're i3-gaps-coded
[2025-10-15T16:58:36Z] <midfavila> >:C
[2025-10-15T16:58:46Z] <kris_> i'm x86_64 coded
[2025-10-15T16:58:56Z] <midfavila> x86 is shite 
[2025-10-15T16:59:30Z] <kris_> i'm lacking a fucking ton of device specific blobs coded
[2025-10-15T16:59:30Z] <kris_> not that there are none its just less bad
[2025-10-15T16:59:31Z] <midfavila> sounds like a you problem
[2025-10-15T16:59:31Z] <midfavila> my reform doesn't need any
[2025-10-15T16:59:31Z] <kris_> its a problem in general
[2025-10-15T16:59:38Z] <midfavila> aside from the memory controller but that gets unloaded once it's done
[2025-10-15T16:59:54Z] <kris_> also nah i dont think laptops need to be actually OP
[2025-10-15T17:00:02Z] <kris_> my t480 is a little tiny bit underpowered but its livable
[2025-10-15T17:00:03Z] <midfavila> laptops are literally just portable thin clients.
[2025-10-15T17:00:07Z] <kris_> i have the 8350u model with 32gb of wam
[2025-10-15T17:00:07Z] <midfavila> your t480 is not.
[2025-10-15T17:00:12Z] <midfavila> you need to adjust your expectations.
[2025-10-15T17:00:18Z] <midfavila> i am going to have an aneurysm.
[2025-10-15T17:00:27Z] <midfavila> istg.
[2025-10-15T17:00:30Z] <kris_> people use laptops for different things
[2025-10-15T17:00:39Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: prepare my gravesite
[2025-10-15T17:01:04Z] <midfavila> i can feel my soul leaving my body, quivering with impotent rage
[2025-10-15T17:01:55Z] <midfavila> but yeah i'm going to get my custom distro up on here at some point
[2025-10-15T17:01:57Z] <midfavila> hopefully soon
[2025-10-15T17:02:00Z] <midfavila> hate debian 
[2025-10-15T17:02:36Z] <kris_> my laptop generally is just a thin client, im actually just running my irc bouncer on my desktop via tmux
[2025-10-15T17:02:36Z] <kris_> but situationally id like more power
[2025-10-15T17:02:36Z] <midfavila> wha
[2025-10-15T17:02:36Z] <midfavila> then you can use any machine ever
[2025-10-15T17:02:36Z] <midfavila> >:CCCCCCCCCCC
[2025-10-15T17:02:36Z] <kris_> situationally meaning when i'm gaming
[2025-10-15T17:02:36Z] <midfavila> on a LAPTOP
[2025-10-15T17:02:37Z] <midfavila> :gun:
[2025-10-15T17:02:40Z] <kris_> YES on a LAPTOP
[2025-10-15T17:02:43Z] <midfavila> lame
[2025-10-15T17:02:43Z] <midfavila> cringe
[2025-10-15T17:02:48Z] <kris_> i dont play like unbelievably heavy games
[2025-10-15T17:02:56Z] <midfavila> idc
[2025-10-15T17:02:58Z] <midfavila> banished
[2025-10-15T17:03:03Z] <midfavila> to the shadow realm
[2025-10-15T17:03:05Z] <kris_> WoW is somewhat playable, mw2 isn't playable because the display is 60hz
[2025-10-15T17:03:09Z] <midfavila> do not collect 200$
[2025-10-15T17:03:09Z] <kris_> minecraft is playable
[2025-10-15T17:03:35Z] <kris_> i outright cant play counterstrike on this thing
[2025-10-15T17:04:33Z] <midfavila> it'sa LAPTOP
[2025-10-15T17:04:34Z] <midfavila> god i can't
[2025-10-15T17:04:34Z] <kris_> tbf my other laptop can run counterstrike
[2025-10-15T17:04:36Z] <kris_> i just dont usually carry it around because an hour of battery life is unacceptably low for what im *typically* doing
[2025-10-15T17:04:36Z] <kris_> at the moment its actually got openbsd on it because i was goofing off with making it a router
[2025-10-15T17:04:57Z] <midfavila> meanwhile riscv chads: http://inv.nadeko.net/channel/UCCeDaAkC2P1XEuVoao862BQ
[2025-10-15T17:06:03Z] <kris_> *but* modern laptops are pretty good performance wise while also having good battery life
[2025-10-15T17:06:04Z] <kris_> good battery life to me really means just like >=6hrs
[2025-10-15T17:06:05Z] <midfavila> performance should never be a concern when it comes to laptops imho
[2025-10-15T17:06:06Z] <kris_> i think we're just very different computer users
[2025-10-15T17:06:06Z] <midfavila> very much so.
[2025-10-15T17:06:06Z] <kris_> i have a 10700k and 32gb of ram + a motherboard in a box because it was too slow
[2025-10-15T17:06:07Z] <kris_> so i replaced it
[2025-10-15T17:06:07Z] <midfavila> i am the CORRECT KIND OF COMPUTER USER
[2025-10-15T17:06:41Z] <kris_> really given i had a 120hz panel in this thing id be more inclined to use it for more stuff
[2025-10-15T17:07:12Z] <kris_> its just hard to unsee
[2025-10-15T17:07:14Z] <kris_> but the panels that are higher refresh rate bomb battery life in the t480 because it just wasnt made with that in mind
[2025-10-15T17:07:17Z] <kris_> i guess VRR may help
[2025-10-15T17:09:09Z] <kris_> midfavila: listen even lains dad agreed that she needed an upgrade 
[2025-10-15T17:09:09Z] * midfavila replaces all of kris_' monitors with e-paper panels
[2025-10-15T17:09:12Z] <kris_> you will not pry my 240hz oled out of my hands
[2025-10-15T17:09:13Z] <midfavila> did you mean: 24hz?
[2025-10-15T17:09:13Z] <kris_> clippy
[2025-10-15T17:09:50Z] <midfavila> hurr
[2025-10-15T17:10:49Z] <midfavila> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa i want my beamspring keyboard alreadddyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
[2025-10-15T17:10:51Z] <kris_> no you have to use a horrible keyboard 
[2025-10-15T17:10:52Z] <midfavila> no
[2025-10-15T17:10:52Z] <midfavila> i refuse
[2025-10-15T17:10:52Z] <kris_> now you're getting it
[2025-10-15T17:10:53Z] <kris_> :p
[2025-10-15T17:11:01Z] <midfavila> keyboards are actually IMPORTANT
[2025-10-15T17:11:07Z] <kris_> idk what im going to do keyboard wise i still dont really like my current one still
[2025-10-15T17:11:08Z] <kris_> and SOMEHOW
[2025-10-15T17:11:10Z] <midfavila> unlike your 42069hz monitor
[2025-10-15T17:11:13Z] <midfavila> get a beamspring
[2025-10-15T17:11:14Z] <kris_> the anodized coating is wearing off
[2025-10-15T17:11:16Z] <kris_> wihch shouldnt even be a thing
[2025-10-15T17:11:29Z] <midfavila> get a beamspring
[2025-10-15T17:11:59Z] <kris_> im thinking about getting an hhkb just to try topre
[2025-10-15T17:11:59Z] <midfavila> get a beamspring
[2025-10-15T17:11:59Z] <kris_> though the hhkb isnt tkl which sucks
[2025-10-15T17:12:01Z] <kris_> the only good keyboard layout
[2025-10-15T17:12:07Z] <midfavila> get a beamspring
[2025-10-15T17:12:09Z] <midfavila> 122-key
[2025-10-15T17:12:13Z] <sewn> ,hjngsdc.h,jnasgd;lh,kagdsl~hagsdpl~asdgkljasdgkljagsd~opuasd~asd~sad~ldsa~ed~lsad~lsd~d~l~lp
[2025-10-15T17:12:19Z] * sewn loves their j-k combo to ~
[2025-10-15T17:12:24Z] <sewn> i love key combos
[2025-10-15T17:12:25Z] <midfavila> sewn get a beamspring
[2025-10-15T17:12:30Z] <sewn> am already happy with my keyboar
[2025-10-15T17:12:30Z] <kris_> absolutely not
[2025-10-15T17:12:37Z] <midfavila> kris_: why ot
[2025-10-15T17:12:38Z] <sewn> what hte fuck
[2025-10-15T17:12:38Z] <midfavila> not
[2025-10-15T17:12:41Z] <sewn> this thing is massive
[2025-10-15T17:12:47Z] <kris_> 87 key TKL is the only layout i like
[2025-10-15T17:12:48Z] <midfavila> it's glorious
[2025-10-15T17:12:48Z] <sewn> this is NOTHING compared to the size of my totem
[2025-10-15T17:12:58Z] <kris_> i dont want a huge ass keyboard
[2025-10-15T17:13:30Z] <midfavila> yes you do
[2025-10-15T17:13:30Z] <kris_> no i really dont
[2025-10-15T17:13:30Z] <midfavila> i'm subliminally influencing you to want one
[2025-10-15T17:13:30Z] <midfavila> or whatever
[2025-10-15T17:13:31Z] <sewn> youre doing a bad job
[2025-10-15T17:13:33Z] <midfavila> no i'm doing a great job
[2025-10-15T17:13:40Z] * sewn looks at kris
[2025-10-15T17:13:42Z] <sewn> i dont think so
[2025-10-15T17:13:57Z] <midfavila> kris is sewn in the room with you
[2025-10-15T17:14:03Z] <kris_> i like the t480 keyboard
[2025-10-15T17:14:12Z] <kris_> rational size
[2025-10-15T17:14:14Z] <midfavila> >lenovo
[2025-10-15T17:14:19Z] <kris_> though the ctrl key being in the wrong spot pisses me off
[2025-10-15T17:14:26Z] <midfavila> have you seen the reform keeb
[2025-10-15T17:14:32Z] <kris_> yeah the layout pisses me off
[2025-10-15T17:15:30Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2025-10-15T17:15:30Z] <kris_> but it seems like an OK keyboard
[2025-10-15T17:15:30Z] <midfavila> it's fine
[2025-10-15T17:15:30Z] <kris_> its a sane size at least
[2025-10-15T17:15:30Z] <sewn> i legitimately prefer my newer 11th gen lenovo laptop over my t430 keyboard
[2025-10-15T17:15:30Z] <midfavila> it's linear which is bad
[2025-10-15T17:15:30Z] <midfavila> but otherwise it's okay
[2025-10-15T17:15:30Z] <kris_> sewn: im not at all surprised
[2025-10-15T17:15:31Z] <kris_> people are unreasonable with these old keyboards
[2025-10-15T17:15:31Z] <sewn> this keyboard is a joke
[2025-10-15T17:15:31Z] <sewn> 200 EUROS
[2025-10-15T17:15:31Z] <sewn> FOR THIS?
[2025-10-15T17:15:31Z] <kris_> midfavila: linear is the only way
[2025-10-15T17:15:31Z] <kris_> i hate tactiles
[2025-10-15T17:15:31Z] <midfavila> linear is dogshit
[2025-10-15T17:15:31Z] <kris_> i hate clicky
[2025-10-15T17:15:31Z] <midfavila> clicky is the only correct approach
[2025-10-15T17:15:32Z] <sewn> i like linears too but i dont mind a good tactile
[2025-10-15T17:15:32Z] <kris_> hating tactiles is why i havent gotten a hhkb yet
[2025-10-15T17:15:32Z] <sewn> i hate clicky
[2025-10-15T17:15:32Z] <sewn> noisy asfy
[2025-10-15T17:15:39Z] <kris_> if i can feel anything at all until it bottoms out it's going to drive me nuts
[2025-10-15T17:15:43Z] <kris_> it's overwhelming and startling idk
[2025-10-15T17:15:47Z] <kris_> i actually despise it
[2025-10-15T17:15:50Z] <midfavila> wait until you hear the 122 once i get my paws on it
[2025-10-15T17:15:54Z] <midfavila> it has a solenoid
[2025-10-15T17:15:55Z] <midfavila> :3
[2025-10-15T17:15:57Z] <sewn> is it loud
[2025-10-15T17:16:01Z] <kris_> if it sounds like a model m im going to feel bad for people around you
[2025-10-15T17:16:31Z] <kris_> god the model m sounds so bad
[2025-10-15T17:16:31Z] <midfavila> the solenoid hammers against the solid steel case
[2025-10-15T17:16:31Z] <sewn> me too kris_
[2025-10-15T17:16:31Z] <midfavila> so
[2025-10-15T17:16:31Z] <midfavila> you know
[2025-10-15T17:16:31Z] <midfavila> :333333
[2025-10-15T17:16:32Z] <sewn> i really hope people with loud keyboards lose their hearing
[2025-10-15T17:16:35Z] <midfavila> you lot are just SOFT
[2025-10-15T17:16:35Z] <sewn> that way they cant enjoy making others suffer
[2025-10-15T17:16:54Z] <midfavila> it sounds like a typewriter which is objectively how keyboards ought to
[2025-10-15T17:17:18Z] <sewn> okay youre a goat youre ought to just go outside, eat grass and shit 
[2025-10-15T17:17:25Z] <sewn> not use typewriters
[2025-10-15T17:17:26Z] <midfavila> okay CHILD
[2025-10-15T17:17:26Z] <sewn> :3
[2025-10-15T17:18:33Z] <kris_> my keyboard sounds amazing
[2025-10-15T17:18:33Z] <midfavila> it's a linear
[2025-10-15T17:18:34Z] <sewn> kris_: tell more
[2025-10-15T17:18:34Z] <midfavila> it doesn't sound like anything
[2025-10-15T17:18:34Z] <midfavila> >.>
[2025-10-15T17:18:34Z] <kris_> i can find a recording to send it if you're interested sewn 
[2025-10-15T17:18:34Z] <sewn> my keyboard sounds like chocolate bar snapping
[2025-10-15T17:18:34Z] <midfavila> the problem with linears is that there's no friggin feedback
[2025-10-15T17:18:35Z] <sewn> like thick, just slightly soft fudge chocolate
[2025-10-15T17:18:35Z] <midfavila> esp if they're light it's way too easy to fat-finger keys
[2025-10-15T17:18:35Z] <sewn> midfavila: the feedback is bottom out..
[2025-10-15T17:18:35Z] <sewn> kris_: hmm
[2025-10-15T17:18:35Z] <sewn> just describe it
[2025-10-15T17:18:35Z] <sewn> spare the bits
[2025-10-15T17:18:50Z] <kris_> creamy, not loud, the bottom out is a thud not a clakc
[2025-10-15T17:18:51Z] <kris_> clack*
[2025-10-15T17:20:07Z] <sewn> okay whats the name of the
[2025-10-15T17:20:07Z] <sewn> switch
[2025-10-15T17:20:07Z] <sewn> what mods have you done to the chasssis
[2025-10-15T17:20:07Z] <sewn> which lube did you use for the switches, if any
[2025-10-15T17:20:08Z] <kris_> the actual specs are: gateron ink box blacks overlubed intentionally with krytox 205g0, 0.3mm durock foam films, the board itself is a kbdfans kbd8x mk3 anodized black with the stainless steel weight plate, full foam kit, pbtfans wob caps, gateron ink v2 pro stabs, gasket mount aluminum plate, and 0.5mm durock poron foam switch pads
[2025-10-15T17:20:24Z] <sewn> ill give you a grilled chicken burger with fries to type on it for a minute
[2025-10-15T17:20:32Z] <sewn> s/to/for me to/
[2025-10-15T17:21:40Z] <kris_> the switches just arent as smooth as id like them to be in terms of sensation while pressing them
[2025-10-15T17:21:42Z] <kris_> theres zero wobble but it has feedback as the stem glides which is an issue
[2025-10-15T17:21:51Z] <sewn> theres two types of people invested in keyboards
[2025-10-15T17:22:00Z] <sewn> you, and me, one likes ergonomics, the other spends 2000$ on mods
[2025-10-15T17:22:03Z] <sewn> to make it sound good
[2025-10-15T17:22:05Z] <sewn> and look good
[2025-10-15T17:22:42Z] <kris_> the whole thing was like 650usd so its not like
[2025-10-15T17:22:42Z] <sewn> jesus christ
[2025-10-15T17:22:42Z] <kris_> TOO crazy
[2025-10-15T17:22:42Z] <sewn> thats fucking crazy are you joking
[2025-10-15T17:22:42Z] <kris_> its too much to be unhappy with it still though
[2025-10-15T17:22:42Z] <kris_> no im not joking
[2025-10-15T17:22:46Z] <sewn> dude this is so much money
[2025-10-15T17:22:59Z] <sewn> this is enough for a new laptop, midrange computer, food for probably a YEAR
[2025-10-15T17:23:08Z] <sewn> nah a year is too much, maybe a month or three
[2025-10-15T17:23:15Z] <sewn> but still thats alot of fucking money you put into a keyboard
[2025-10-15T17:23:16Z] <midfavila> lmfao
[2025-10-15T17:23:17Z] <midfavila> try a mnonth
[2025-10-15T17:23:19Z] <midfavila> month
[2025-10-15T17:23:21Z] <sewn> and thats FAIR becaus you work in IT
[2025-10-15T17:23:25Z] <sewn> you SHOULD spend some money on that keyboard
[2025-10-15T17:23:27Z] <kris_> i dont have a job lol
[2025-10-15T17:23:34Z] <midfavila> yeah kris is also babby
[2025-10-15T17:23:36Z] * sewn is too stunned to speak
[2025-10-15T17:23:41Z] <kris_> babby? 
[2025-10-15T17:23:43Z] <kris_> bitch im the same age as you
[2025-10-15T17:23:44Z] <midfavila> babby
[2025-10-15T17:23:45Z] <midfavila> smol
[2025-10-15T17:24:43Z] <kris_> sewn: tbf i had a job when i built it
[2025-10-15T17:24:43Z] <midfavila> *i* have *two* jobs
[2025-10-15T17:24:43Z] <kris_> so it wasnt much money at that time
[2025-10-15T17:24:43Z] <sewn> what about now
[2025-10-15T17:24:44Z] <midfavila> that means i get to spend twice as much on a keyboard
[2025-10-15T17:24:46Z] <sewn> midfavila: or get yourself some good food
[2025-10-15T17:24:46Z] <kris_> jobs arent real
[2025-10-15T17:24:46Z] <midfavila> sewn food is expensive
[2025-10-15T17:24:46Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2025-10-15T17:24:47Z] <sewn> okay. thats why i said good food
[2025-10-15T17:24:50Z] <sewn> dont invest in keyboards
[2025-10-15T17:24:51Z] <sewn> invest in food
[2025-10-15T17:24:56Z] <sewn> because its more important and
[2025-10-15T17:24:59Z] <sewn> money
[2025-10-15T17:25:09Z] <sewn> or you can just eat the free grass outside
[2025-10-15T17:25:12Z] <sewn> works for you
[2025-10-15T17:25:17Z] <sewn> efficient money saving
[2025-10-15T17:26:21Z] <kris_> just dawned upon me that i spent over 3x as much on my keyboard as my laptop
[2025-10-15T17:26:22Z] <kris_> i got my t480 for like 180usd
[2025-10-15T17:26:28Z] <kris_> sewn: luckily i dont need to pay for food
[2025-10-15T17:26:34Z] <kris_> my dad is a cooking fanatic
[2025-10-15T17:26:52Z] <midfavila> https://inv.nadeko.net/1qw6ebySet0?t=916
[2025-10-15T17:27:22Z] <midfavila> kris_: sewn: 
[2025-10-15T17:27:23Z] <midfavila> behold, a true keyboard
[2025-10-15T17:27:26Z] <midfavila> 15:45 is even better :3c
[2025-10-15T17:27:26Z] <sewn> i am not watching that
[2025-10-15T17:27:31Z] <midfavila> dewit
[2025-10-15T17:27:35Z] <midfavila> dewit nao
[2025-10-15T17:27:48Z] <kris_> i hate this mid im sorry
[2025-10-15T17:27:54Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2025-10-15T17:27:58Z] <midfavila> check 15:45
[2025-10-15T17:28:02Z] <kris_> like theres nothing about this i like
[2025-10-15T17:28:30Z] <midfavila> perfect keyboard
[2025-10-15T17:29:28Z] <midfavila> peak
[2025-10-15T17:29:28Z] <midfavila> kino
[2025-10-15T17:29:28Z] <midfavila> no lube necessary
[2025-10-15T17:29:29Z] <midfavila> no CASE MODS necessary
[2025-10-15T17:29:29Z] <midfavila> it just werks
[2025-10-15T17:29:31Z] <kris_> lube and case mods arent necessary they're just things us dorks do to have a better experience
[2025-10-15T17:29:32Z] <kris_> you can totally spend $35 on a hotswappable mx-style keyboard and itll just werk
[2025-10-15T17:29:47Z] <midfavila> mxes are ewaste
[2025-10-15T17:29:48Z] <kris_> keychron has some gasket mount mx keyboard for $35
[2025-10-15T17:29:51Z] <kris_> midfavila: SOME of them are
[2025-10-15T17:29:54Z] <midfavila> all of them are
[2025-10-15T17:29:55Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2025-10-15T17:30:58Z] <kris_> i feel like you're extrapolating an experience with cherry switches for the entire ecosystem
[2025-10-15T17:30:59Z] <midfavila> springs trounce them
[2025-10-15T17:30:59Z] <midfavila> full stop
[2025-10-15T17:30:59Z] <midfavila> i'll put even unicomp Ms against an MX of any sort
[2025-10-15T17:43:21Z] <kris_> whatever floats that boat mid