[2025-11-10T01:08:16Z] <dery> sad_plan: I think they're referring to the cybertrucks
[2025-11-10T01:08:31Z] <dery> those are very much illegal
[2025-11-10T01:29:14Z] <midfavila> cybertrucks are dogshit as are teslas in general
[2025-11-10T01:29:43Z] <midfavila> they charge extra for a protective coating on the cybertruck's steel panelling to be applied at the factory
[2025-11-10T01:30:08Z] <midfavila> if you don't have it and a bird shits on your super turbo king of the road warrior apocalypse do-it-all child crusher 9000 it'll rust 
[2025-11-10T01:30:14Z] <midfavila> lmfao
[2025-11-10T01:30:52Z] <midfavila> it's super funny seeing all these losers that have them here desperately trying to get rid of them since they just cannot handle canadian winter conditions
[2025-11-10T01:31:06Z] <midfavila> esp once the salt-sprayers start getting deployed by the city
[2025-11-10T01:31:14Z] <midfavila> also hi dery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[2025-11-10T01:31:46Z] <kris_> midfavila: 
[2025-11-10T01:31:57Z] <kris_> school got cancelled for tomorrow yay
[2025-11-10T01:32:07Z] <midfavila> nice
[2025-11-10T01:32:14Z] <midfavila> i have work tomorrow and then tuesday off
[2025-11-10T01:32:18Z] <midfavila> armstice day
[2025-11-10T01:32:22Z] <kris_> what is armstice
[2025-11-10T01:32:33Z] <midfavila> armistice even
[2025-11-10T01:32:36Z] <midfavila> can't english
[2025-11-10T01:33:18Z] <midfavila> it's to commemorate the end of the first world war and to just generally mourn war and those lost fighting in it
[2025-11-10T02:22:29Z] <kris_> ic
[2025-11-10T02:22:32Z] <kris_> first im hearing of this
[2025-11-10T02:23:30Z] <sad_plan> dery: also not illegal. atleast not in norway. norway is pretty damn strict about its rules, so if norway accepts that piece of trash, im guessing most of the rest of europe can aswell
[2025-11-10T02:23:57Z] <sad_plan> also, i know, because theres some dude where I live, which has one.
[2025-11-10T02:25:06Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: theyre pretty dogshit here aswell, even with our rather mild winters here. despite all of this, teslas are quite popular here. i have no clue why
[2025-11-10T02:25:10Z] <kris_> i see cybertrucks here constantly
[2025-11-10T02:25:17Z] <kris_> not europe just funny
[2025-11-10T02:25:41Z] <sad_plan> although, norway has given EV's free pass on toll roads though, which is wierd, as they still use the road in the same manner as the rest of us
[2025-11-10T02:25:49Z] <sad_plan> maybe theyre popular where you live kris_ 
[2025-11-10T02:25:55Z] <kris_> very
[2025-11-10T02:25:59Z] <kris_> tesla in general is very popular in my area
[2025-11-10T02:26:54Z] <sad_plan> right
[2025-11-10T02:27:50Z] <kris_> cybertrucks just look really goofy and sound weird
[2025-11-10T02:28:00Z] <kris_> they've got some sort of slightly high pitched squeal to them
[2025-11-10T02:29:06Z] <sad_plan> cybertrucks looks lke the incernation of a childs drawing really
[2025-11-10T02:29:18Z] <sad_plan> i honestly dont get why telsa would even make them
[2025-11-10T03:39:42Z] <midfavila> kris_: didn't the las vegas cops replace their cruisers with cybertrucks or some shit lmfao
[2025-11-10T03:39:51Z] <kris_> i do not know
[2025-11-10T03:40:29Z] <kris_> i actually hate finding out about bugs in my software from unrelated reddit threads instead of the literal issues tracker on that repo on github
[2025-11-10T03:40:37Z] <kris_> like people don't tell me about stuff and then say it's broken elsewhere out of my sight
[2025-11-10T03:40:45Z] <kris_> tale as old as time but still
[2025-11-10T03:41:24Z] <kris_> i wonder if some of my projects have been a mistake just because it enables people to use things they shouldn't yet be
[2025-11-10T04:06:17Z] <sad_plan> im in a bit of a mindset that if they actually wanna use something they find to be broken, they actually make the effort and create that issue, or pr. as opposed to just sit and complain that a solution doesnt fall into their lap on its own
[2025-11-10T04:07:03Z] <sad_plan> also, if people use something that is unfinished, thats on them imo
[2025-11-10T04:07:07Z] <kris_> "oh no, thing is broken! time to not mention it or try to fix it" is way too common
[2025-11-10T04:07:24Z] <sad_plan> at the very least, if its stated in the README that this is beta software or something
[2025-11-10T04:07:26Z] <sad_plan> indeed
[2025-11-10T04:08:19Z] <kris_> my thing isnt really "beta software" it's just bleeding edge down to the commit for the time being
[2025-11-10T04:08:28Z] <kris_> and has been for like 3 years
[2025-11-10T04:08:43Z] <kris_> shit happens but people never tell me about issues and instead mention it elsewhere and i sometimes happen to find it
[2025-11-10T04:09:27Z] <kris_> so that bug has been there since july 23rd because i dont use any of these features myself
[2025-11-10T04:10:00Z] <kris_> *anyway*, people can be annoying
[2025-11-10T04:10:14Z] <sad_plan> thats on them for not properly reporting it imo
[2025-11-10T04:10:25Z] <sad_plan> can be? they are. truly so
[2025-11-10T04:10:29Z] <kris_> you can always follow the chain
[2025-11-10T04:10:45Z] <kris_> it's on me for adding so many features that i don't ever use myself so they never get as much attention as the ones i do
[2025-11-10T04:10:55Z] <kris_> i expected people who *do* use those to contribute but LOL
[2025-11-10T04:10:59Z] <kris_> recurring issue
[2025-11-10T04:12:40Z] <sad_plan> note to self next time: dont implement features you dont use
[2025-11-10T04:13:05Z] <sad_plan> this way, code is leaner, and you wont have unreported issues about features you dont use
[2025-11-10T04:19:43Z] <dery> heads up, I'll shut down the bouncer again soon™ cause I'm going away once again
[2025-11-10T04:19:59Z] <dery> (yes I still haven't set up the cool bouncer cause my local network sucks, I'm looking into it)
[2025-11-10T04:28:21Z] <kris_> we'll miss you dery 
[2025-11-10T04:28:38Z] <kris_> sad_plan: yeah its just gradual feature creep over time
[2025-11-10T04:28:50Z] <kris_> at one point this stuff was used by me and then i moved on 
[2025-11-10T04:29:57Z] <kris_> https://github.com/kkrruumm/void-install-script/ if you're curious what I'm talking about
[2025-11-10T04:30:02Z] <kris_> i use probably 10% of this
[2025-11-10T04:37:10Z] <sad_plan> i get that kris_. i can also relate. I added some features to rcsm some time ago, which basically just removed the need for doing a loop if you wanna interact with more than one service at once. it kinda felt redundant, but I was also annoyd by the fact that I had to run loops at times.
[2025-11-10T04:37:42Z] <sad_plan> I could ofcourse manage without said features, and just use loops, but eh...
[2025-11-10T04:40:57Z] <kris_> i just dont like pulling things that work fine out from under users
[2025-11-10T04:41:10Z] <kris_> hopefully when things break in the future people will tell me about them, software does indeed atrophy
[2025-11-10T05:03:28Z] <sad_plan> you wont be doing that if you dont implement them to begin with
[2025-11-10T05:05:42Z] <sad_plan> you could also put the work on them, and specifically tell users that you dont care for this feature, so if you want it, youd have to put in the work yourself. if it breaks, you fix it
[2025-11-10T05:06:17Z] <sad_plan> ive seen this mindset before, and I kinda like it. people can come begging for feature a to z, but not be willing to put in the work themselves
[2025-11-10T05:06:28Z] <sad_plan> also, finally, time to go hom
[2025-11-10T05:06:30Z] <sad_plan> cya
[2025-11-10T05:08:35Z] <kris_> ttyl <3
[2025-11-10T05:30:33Z] <Ozymandias42> Cybertrucks ARE illegal in Germany 
[2025-11-10T05:30:48Z] <Ozymandias42> Also morning Kris 
[2025-11-10T05:31:16Z] <kris_> morning ozy
[2025-11-10T05:33:56Z] <midfavila> Ozymandias42: can you smuggle me into germany
[2025-11-10T05:34:02Z] <midfavila> i don't want to see cybercucks any more
[2025-11-10T05:34:34Z] <Ozymandias42> Enough people here that just don't leave. You can do it too
[2025-11-10T05:35:03Z] <midfavila> i can trade my spot in canada with them
[2025-11-10T05:35:09Z] <midfavila> xwx
[2025-11-10T05:35:12Z] <Ozymandias42> You will see a shitton of other Tesla's here though 
[2025-11-10T05:35:22Z] <midfavila> i'll be able to afford food tho
[2025-11-10T05:35:26Z] <midfavila> which is what actually matter
[2025-11-10T05:35:27Z] <midfavila> s
[2025-11-10T05:35:47Z] <midfavila> i bought two fucking bags of groceries today and it was like 150CAD
[2025-11-10T05:35:55Z] <Ozymandias42> Really dislike those too. Those things are also almost criminally badly designed. 
[2025-11-10T05:36:10Z] <midfavila> little meat, little produce, and like, a box of tea and some tea biscuits
[2025-11-10T05:36:13Z] * midfavila dies
[2025-11-10T05:36:17Z] <Ozymandias42> Yeah food has gotten expensive. Here too
[2025-11-10T05:36:30Z] <midfavila> the problem is that wages in canada are piss
[2025-11-10T05:36:42Z] <midfavila> my province has a minimum wage of 14CAD an hour
[2025-11-10T05:36:53Z] <midfavila> 8.63 euro
[2025-11-10T05:37:03Z] <Ozymandias42> Like whose bright idea was it to put these stupid push in door handles on a car for a market where it freezes in winter?
[2025-11-10T05:37:04Z] <midfavila> meanwhile most places to rent will be at least 1200
[2025-11-10T05:37:43Z] <Ozymandias42> Yikes. Yeah that sounds almost US-bad
[2025-11-10T05:37:53Z] <midfavila> it's significantly worse than the USA.
[2025-11-10T05:38:01Z] <midfavila> i've compared prices with friends from different regions.
[2025-11-10T05:38:16Z] <midfavila> food is like anywhere from 2 to 4 times more expensive here by volume
[2025-11-10T05:38:43Z] <midfavila> i mean okay sure no medical bankruptcy but bankruptcy by grocer is only marginally better
[2025-11-10T05:39:06Z] <Ozymandias42> Didn't expect that. Then again Canada hopefully isn't sellin people less poison disguised as food
[2025-11-10T05:39:14Z] <midfavila> lmao you wish
[2025-11-10T05:39:15Z] <Ozymandias42> *is
[2025-11-10T05:39:39Z] <midfavila> everything here is crazy
[2025-11-10T05:39:43Z] <midfavila> and it's all shit
[2025-11-10T05:39:55Z] <midfavila> lot of stores just have rotten food on the shelves now
[2025-11-10T05:39:59Z] <midfavila> it's actually insane
[2025-11-10T05:40:19Z] <midfavila> i'll only buy from local co-ops because private businesses have no incentive to *not* try to sell people rotten food now
[2025-11-10T05:40:47Z] <Ozymandias42> Well only serves to show how insane the whole food industry is anyway. 50% of all our food globally is thrown away
[2025-11-10T05:40:52Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2025-11-10T05:40:58Z] <midfavila> it ought to be criminal
[2025-11-10T05:41:18Z] <Ozymandias42> Here that would be 
[2025-11-10T05:41:22Z] <midfavila> there's been a big push from food banks here to try and get the government to enact direct wealth transfer measures 
[2025-11-10T05:41:29Z] <midfavila> because they literally do not have enough food for people
[2025-11-10T05:41:36Z] <Ozymandias42> Food industry in Europe is very strictly regulated
[2025-11-10T05:41:40Z] <midfavila> and they're either instituting rationing or shutting down
[2025-11-10T05:41:53Z] <midfavila> and meanwhile we have a crisis of like
[2025-11-10T05:41:58Z] <midfavila> scurvy and rickets and shit
[2025-11-10T05:42:15Z] <midfavila> while also having those same populations dealing with metabolic diseases like obesity and diabetes because our food is *that* bad
[2025-11-10T05:42:32Z] <midfavila> and our entire society is set up to just fucking 
[2025-11-10T05:42:37Z] <midfavila> turn you into one of those people from wall-e
[2025-11-10T05:42:48Z] <Ozymandias42> ..sounds like some places are nearing the boiling point in record speed
[2025-11-10T05:42:54Z] <midfavila> i mean
[2025-11-10T05:43:00Z] <midfavila> i was talking to someone from uhhh
[2025-11-10T05:43:03Z] <midfavila> sweden i think
[2025-11-10T05:43:05Z] <midfavila> on SDF's bboard
[2025-11-10T05:43:14Z] <dilyn> oofta. it's not my LAN it's my WAN
[2025-11-10T05:43:14Z] <midfavila> and he was pretty astonished at how things are going
[2025-11-10T05:43:16Z] <midfavila> and it's like
[2025-11-10T05:43:28Z] <midfavila> people can't even agree on what constitutes reality?
[2025-11-10T05:43:29Z] <dilyn> I have 120mbps to the wall. not enough to stream 4k hdr :'( 
[2025-11-10T05:43:58Z] <dilyn> ironically enough, the buffering is... audio transcoding?
[2025-11-10T05:44:05Z] <midfavila> like you're make a statement, and they'll make a statement, and you'll disagree and go to check, and even if it's something that you can derive yourself, like a claim about income tax rates or something, they just... disagree?
[2025-11-10T05:44:31Z] <midfavila> i don't know how to explain it other than that.
[2025-11-10T05:44:47Z] <Ozymandias42> I thought this kind of reality denial was only in the US at least that bad
[2025-11-10T05:44:51Z] <midfavila> dilyn yk what i mean right 
[2025-11-10T05:44:55Z] <midfavila> or am i just fucking insane
[2025-11-10T05:45:01Z] <midfavila> probably the latter at least a little
[2025-11-10T05:45:09Z] <Ozymandias42> Guess I was too hopeful seeing how traces of that are here too already 
[2025-11-10T05:45:20Z] <midfavila> Ozymandias42: the cognitive dissonance of people in canada is unbelievable 
[2025-11-10T05:45:37Z] <midfavila> we're at-least-we're-not-america'd ourself into the shitter
[2025-11-10T05:45:44Z] <midfavila> s/we're/we've/
[2025-11-10T05:46:07Z] <dilyn> mid so true 
[2025-11-10T05:46:10Z] <dilyn> we live in a post-truth world
[2025-11-10T05:46:27Z] <Ozymandias42> Probably because the similar background in terms of long term indoctrination via uncontrolled capitalism
[2025-11-10T05:47:51Z] <midfavila> i just want to leave at this point
[2025-11-10T05:49:48Z] <Ozymandias42> The number of good countries to escape to from the insanity of most of the western world these days is quite small
[2025-11-10T05:50:47Z] <midfavila> i mean ultimately there *is* no escape
[2025-11-10T05:50:55Z] <midfavila> because something something inevitable conclusion of markets
[2025-11-10T05:50:57Z] <midfavila> something something
[2025-11-10T05:51:18Z] <midfavila> but jfc man i literally just want *one* break 
[2025-11-10T05:51:27Z] <Ozymandias42> Markets need customers. If nobody wants your product it doesn't matter how big you are
[2025-11-10T05:52:08Z] <Ozymandias42> And to enable people to make good decisions on what they want education and good journalism are critical
[2025-11-10T05:52:13Z] <midfavila> mmh
[2025-11-10T05:53:43Z] <Ozymandias42> Look at the history of the us car manufacturers in Europe. They all failed miserably with the exception of ford. And ford only succeeded because they built specifically for the European market and taste
[2025-11-10T14:31:05Z] <midfavila> gm internet computer friends
[2025-11-10T16:35:28Z] <midfavila> evahasarrived i'm trying typhoo
[2025-11-10T16:36:02Z] <midfavila> ...okay yeah i'm going back to taylors
[2025-11-10T16:36:05Z] <midfavila> this is uhh
[2025-11-10T16:36:12Z] <midfavila> mm
[2025-11-10T16:36:21Z] <midfavila> i mean i'll drink it
[2025-11-10T16:36:27Z] <midfavila> it's definitely tea
[2025-11-10T16:36:55Z] <midfavila> it's a shame because i love their boxart
[2025-11-10T16:36:58Z] <midfavila> very pretty
[2025-11-10T16:38:19Z] <midfavila> this reminds me of like
[2025-11-10T16:38:20Z] <midfavila> red rose
[2025-11-10T16:38:30Z] <midfavila> evahasarrived does the uk have red rose
[2025-11-10T16:38:31Z] <midfavila> ?
[2025-11-10T16:39:21Z] <midfavila> i think it's a canadian brand
[2025-11-10T16:44:37Z] <midfavila> also i found out that they stock hobnobs
[2025-11-10T16:44:43Z] <midfavila> so i'm trying those for the first time
[2025-11-10T16:44:48Z] <midfavila> ngl i think i prefer them to digestives
[2025-11-10T16:44:59Z] <midfavila> they have a more interesting texture and seem to stick together better
[2025-11-10T16:50:13Z] <Ozymandias42> today in LLMs being awesome for learning while answering highly specific questions: https://chat.mistral.ai/chat/0d9fadc3-6fdc-4f13-a869-af43f4192246
[2025-11-10T16:57:06Z] <midfavila> cringe
[2025-11-10T16:57:12Z] <midfavila> don't post LLMshit please
[2025-11-10T16:57:37Z] <Ozymandias42> read first, then decide to shit on it
[2025-11-10T16:57:54Z] <Ozymandias42> also I'd like you see and get this kind of info in a short or more pleasant way than via LLM
[2025-11-10T16:58:13Z] <Ozymandias42> this is what peak tool usage as learning aid looks like
[2025-11-10T16:58:19Z] <midfavila> by talking to someone who knows about the topic
[2025-11-10T16:58:20Z] <midfavila> lol
[2025-11-10T16:58:26Z] <midfavila> or reading a book about it
[2025-11-10T16:58:40Z] <Ozymandias42> all takes far longer than just asking the bot
[2025-11-10T16:58:51Z] <midfavila> shitting on LLMs and their use is a priori valid
[2025-11-10T16:58:58Z] <Ozymandias42> this is MUCH faster as I immediately get an answer to try out and verify. 
[2025-11-10T16:59:17Z] <midfavila> so mere convenience justifies the use of a technology that is error-prone and causes massive suffering?
[2025-11-10T16:59:24Z] <Ozymandias42> of course
[2025-11-10T16:59:35Z] <midfavila> say that to the people who can hardly afford to pay their electric bill
[2025-11-10T16:59:36Z] <Ozymandias42> that's the core of all technology after all if you boil it down
[2025-11-10T16:59:47Z] <midfavila> "well at least i got to learn about k8s slightly faster"
[2025-11-10T17:00:16Z] <Ozymandias42> not the fault of LLMs that people misuse the tech and develop it with questionable methods
[2025-11-10T17:00:21Z] <midfavila> bro
[2025-11-10T17:00:22Z] <midfavila> do you 
[2025-11-10T17:00:25Z] <midfavila> do you know how LLMs are like
[2025-11-10T17:00:26Z] <midfavila> mae
[2025-11-10T17:00:29Z] <midfavila> made
[2025-11-10T17:00:31Z] <Ozymandias42> of course
[2025-11-10T17:00:37Z] <midfavila> then what the fuck are you on about?
[2025-11-10T17:00:52Z] <midfavila> there's no way to develop LLMs that isn't objectionable
[2025-11-10T17:01:19Z] <midfavila> also, by outsourcing your research to an LLM, you let your skills rust. the process of learning is just as important as the shit you're learning
[2025-11-10T17:01:43Z] <Ozymandias42> I read more than enough docs as is
[2025-11-10T17:01:45Z] <midfavila> the constant rush for the destination without appreciating the journey in the so-called western world is half the reason everything has gone to shit
[2025-11-10T17:04:50Z] <Ozymandias42> I also look at the docs for k8s often enough. however special questions like this kinda require more than just docs they require either someone who knows this stuff this in depth or longer research do distill it from the docs myself. So if I was denying myself the use of LLMs I'd either have to invest a lot more time or not learn it because the effort would not be worth it for the payoff. (slightly better organisation)
[2025-11-10T17:05:25Z] <midfavila> there is literally nothing that you could say that could ever change my mind on LLMs
[2025-11-10T17:05:59Z] <midfavila> or genAI in general
[2025-11-10T17:06:03Z] <Ozymandias42> ..is this just ideologically founded via (justified) hate on bigtech or do you have bad personal experiences?
[2025-11-10T17:06:22Z] <Ozymandias42> if it was the former, that is why I use LeChat by Mistral. That's a french startup
[2025-11-10T17:06:34Z] <midfavila> it's both.
[2025-11-10T17:07:14Z] <midfavila> between the enormous environmental costs paid by us all for their development, and the exceptionally toxic impact the technology has had on society writ large, i am all too willing to lock it in a box and throw away the key.
[2025-11-10T17:07:40Z] <midfavila> the mainstream internet is even more shit now, and you've people who are mentally unwell being driven insane or to death by these machines
[2025-11-10T17:07:47Z] <midfavila> and the more subtle shit is what's really sinister
[2025-11-10T17:07:59Z] <midfavila> fabricated videos and news articles being used to mislead the public in politics
[2025-11-10T17:08:02Z] <midfavila> etc
[2025-11-10T17:08:09Z] <midfavila> manufacture consent for the most heinous shit
[2025-11-10T17:08:25Z] <midfavila> and all of this is being paid, and for what?
[2025-11-10T17:08:44Z] <midfavila> a computer model that can pretend to be your friend or be a slightly-better search engine, all to save you a few minutes of reading?
[2025-11-10T17:08:50Z] <Ozymandias42> yeah those things are absolutely dispicable. It still is not inherently the fault of the technology. that is just a dumb tool
[2025-11-10T17:08:56Z] <midfavila> no, it IS
[2025-11-10T17:09:00Z] <midfavila> that's what you don't UNDERSTAND
[2025-11-10T17:09:14Z] <midfavila> the mere USE of this technology is driving up the cost of living for regular, everyday people
[2025-11-10T17:09:29Z] <midfavila> who the hell do you think pays for the data centres and electricity they use that these models run on?
[2025-11-10T17:09:41Z] <Ozymandias42> because the power usage in datacenters make the electricity bill increase for everyone? 
[2025-11-10T17:09:45Z] <midfavila> yes
[2025-11-10T17:09:48Z] <midfavila> it also spikes water costs
[2025-11-10T17:09:54Z] <midfavila> and exacerbates drought in poor regions of the world
[2025-11-10T17:10:08Z] <Ozymandias42> poor regions have AI datacenters?
[2025-11-10T17:10:11Z] <midfavila> uh, yes?
[2025-11-10T17:10:22Z] <midfavila> what, do you think they're being installed in beverly hills?
[2025-11-10T17:10:33Z] <midfavila> it's the same shit nestle does
[2025-11-10T17:10:34Z] <Ozymandias42> oh right. sometimes forget the US counts as poor region...
[2025-11-10T17:10:44Z] <midfavila> they go in to some poor region and make the locals a devil's deal 
[2025-11-10T17:10:56Z] <Ozymandias42> I'm still in the mindset of poor region = eastern europe or africa
[2025-11-10T17:11:02Z] <midfavila> not to mention the fucking
[2025-11-10T17:11:11Z] <midfavila> trauma that people who have to classify training data go through
[2025-11-10T17:11:21Z] <midfavila> that's a whole separate issue 
[2025-11-10T17:12:02Z] <midfavila> https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=YN6BEUA4jNU
[2025-11-10T17:12:19Z] <midfavila> in a world on fire where regular people have to choose between heating or eating, the use of LLMs is irresponsible
[2025-11-10T17:12:38Z] <midfavila> absolutely nobody should use them
[2025-11-10T17:13:24Z] <midfavila> i mean, i'm not even american, this is just a global issue.
[2025-11-10T17:13:39Z] <Ozymandias42> seems like I should look for models trained in europe without stolen data. that I can selfhost. that way I use it responsibly at least...
[2025-11-10T17:13:59Z] <midfavila> again, you're missing my point
[2025-11-10T17:14:05Z] <midfavila> you literally cannot use this technology responsibly
[2025-11-10T17:14:21Z] <midfavila> the mere cost of running it is obscene, and that gets foisted onto society writ large
[2025-11-10T17:15:00Z] <midfavila> it's like, fuckin, cars and shit
[2025-11-10T17:15:01Z] <Ozymandias42> no I see it. I just refuse to draw the same radical conclusion. because as bad as all this is it's the same thing as when steam machines were invented. but in hindsight noboy would want to go back to before the industrial revolution
[2025-11-10T17:15:28Z] <Ozymandias42> what the introduction of machines and accord work did to people was no less awful
[2025-11-10T17:15:37Z] <midfavila> jesus fucking christ are you seriously comparing the latest iteration of chatbots to the fucking industrial revolution
[2025-11-10T17:16:17Z] <midfavila> i don't even know what your point here is
[2025-11-10T17:16:20Z] <Ozymandias42> yes. because the negative effects of both were each time the fault of not stopping exploitation and greed
[2025-11-10T17:16:33Z] <Ozymandias42> it was not inherent to the new invention
[2025-11-10T17:16:47Z] <midfavila> I am TELLING you that this cost IS inherent
[2025-11-10T17:16:48Z] <Ozymandias42> the devil is out of the box
[2025-11-10T17:17:05Z] <midfavila> it's as inherent as internal combustion engines needing to fucking combust fuel
[2025-11-10T17:17:51Z] <midfavila> also you can't just dismiss ideas by calling them 'radical'
[2025-11-10T17:17:54Z] <midfavila> that's such a goddamn copout
[2025-11-10T17:18:27Z] <Ozymandias42> yes and how prices for oil are artifically inflated and how lobbying has kept effizient engines from being a thing for 40 years is inherent to the combustion engine too
[2025-11-10T17:18:46Z] <midfavila> i'm not even talking about market forces here
[2025-11-10T17:18:55Z] <midfavila> no matter how efficient ICEs get, they *must* combust fuel
[2025-11-10T17:19:14Z] <midfavila> similarly, LLMs by their nature consume enormous quantities of electricity
[2025-11-10T17:19:32Z] <midfavila> god, i'm not wasting any more time on this
[2025-11-10T17:19:40Z] <Ozymandias42> yes but that fuel can be made from renewable sources too for instance. or it can be made from sources that combust into water. like fuelcells do
[2025-11-10T17:20:12Z] <Ozymandias42> current LLMs are bad in this way agreed. 
[2025-11-10T17:20:23Z] <Ozymandias42> to have developed them in that direction was a mistake in the first place
[2025-11-10T17:20:50Z] <Ozymandias42> especially with the stupid industry bunying ever more power hungry but no more efficient nvidia cards for it
[2025-11-10T17:21:51Z] <Ozymandias42> there's alternatives to using powerhungry GPUs too though. as is to using stupid amounts of data to train these kinds of nets. its just harder than just throwing money on it until the bubble bursts
[2025-11-10T17:21:57Z] <Ozymandias42> so capitalism does as it always does
[2025-11-10T17:22:18Z] <Ozymandias42> no matter the cost to environment or society
[2025-11-10T17:22:54Z] <Ozymandias42> this is not the fault of technology but of human greed and politics failing to care for the people they govern
[2025-11-10T17:23:18Z] <midfavila> we're not talking about this any longer
[2025-11-10T17:23:27Z] <midfavila> the conversation, such as it is, has finished
[2025-11-10T17:23:53Z] <Ozymandias42> fine. I'm sorry for having started this...
[2025-11-10T17:33:59Z] <midfavila> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpZ5STahhPE
[2025-11-10T17:40:48Z] <sewn> meoe
[2025-11-10T17:42:14Z] <midfavila> woa
[2025-11-10T17:42:17Z] <midfavila> it's a sewn
[2025-11-10T17:42:24Z] <midfavila> hi a sewn
[2025-11-10T17:45:03Z] <midfavila> is it pronounced like shaun or sewn as it "sewn together" or like "shone"
[2025-11-10T17:45:10Z] <midfavila> s/it/in/
[2025-11-10T17:45:25Z] <sewn> meow
[2025-11-10T17:46:11Z] * midfavila points a water hose at sewn
[2025-11-10T17:46:14Z] <midfavila> answer the question
[2025-11-10T17:47:46Z] * sewn runs away
[2025-11-10T18:46:04Z] <evahasarrived> it's closer to "soon" no?
[2025-11-10T18:46:23Z] <evahasarrived> why would it be shaun
[2025-11-10T21:16:34Z] <midfavila> havin lunch
[2025-11-10T21:16:45Z] <midfavila> luv me reubens, luv me meat pies, luv me biscuits, luv me tea
[2025-11-10T21:16:46Z] <midfavila> simple as
[2025-11-10T21:17:07Z] <midfavila> i'm honestly devastated though, the store only had thousand island dressing, not russian
[2025-11-10T21:20:42Z] <midfavila> dilyn what's your favourite lunch
[2025-11-10T21:23:33Z] <dilyn> I eat bits for breakfast
[2025-11-10T21:23:45Z] <dilyn> for lunch I usually munch on GPL advocates
[2025-11-10T21:25:18Z] <midfavila> dery that should go in the fortunes file
[2025-11-10T21:25:49Z] <midfavila> *I* like oatcakes for breakfast - w-
[2025-11-10T21:26:14Z] <sad_plan> Ozymandias42: you didnt specify germany, you said EU
[2025-11-10T21:26:30Z] <midfavila> uh oh here comes sad_plan
[2025-11-10T21:26:42Z] <midfavila> bouta have a bad time
[2025-11-10T21:26:56Z] <dilyn> um ackshually
[2025-11-10T21:27:02Z] <dilyn> you're about to have a *sad* time
[2025-11-10T21:27:20Z] <midfavila> i'm going to beat you up in a waffle house parking lot
[2025-11-10T21:27:26Z] <midfavila> istg
[2025-11-10T21:27:40Z] <midfavila> >:c
[2025-11-10T21:27:47Z] <sad_plan> dilyn: lololololol good one
[2025-11-10T21:28:11Z] <dilyn> :c
[2025-11-10T21:28:12Z] <sad_plan> also hi dilyn. nice to see you around here again
[2025-11-10T21:28:15Z] <midfavila> as soon as i illegally skydive into norway you're next sad_plan
[2025-11-10T21:28:16Z] <midfavila> :gun:
[2025-11-10T21:28:17Z] <dilyn> o/ hallo
[2025-11-10T21:28:32Z] <sad_plan> ill be waiting mid
[2025-11-10T21:28:49Z] <dilyn> I think that's the most American thing a Canadian has ever said
[2025-11-10T21:28:53Z] <dilyn> congrats on breaking new ground, Mid
[2025-11-10T21:28:54Z] <sad_plan> hows things these days dilyn? ubuntu treating you good?
[2025-11-10T21:29:03Z] <dilyn> green card is in the mail
[2025-11-10T21:29:06Z] <sad_plan> heard something about they switching to uutils or something
[2025-11-10T21:29:10Z] <dilyn> ubuntu is treating me :V :V :V that's for certain
[2025-11-10T21:29:16Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2025-11-10T21:29:22Z] <dilyn> yeah and I'm fighting bugs and poor behavior left and right lmfaoooo
[2025-11-10T21:29:28Z] <midfavila> dilyn we both know that i'm just going to be denaturalised and gulag'd
[2025-11-10T21:29:35Z] <dilyn> there's a cool bug in sudo-rs that results in some super unpleasant UX
[2025-11-10T21:30:01Z] <midfavila> yeah i heard that the rust stuff has been super buggy
[2025-11-10T21:30:12Z] <midfavila> i'm staying with my suckmore utilities 
[2025-11-10T21:30:25Z] <sad_plan> thats what ive heard aswell :p just let it rust, and go back to C instead :D
[2025-11-10T21:30:28Z] <dilyn> you'd think after five years at it they'd be more mature but they were also on a 0.1 release for like, two years lmfaoooo
[2025-11-10T21:30:40Z] <dilyn> reject coreutils, return to toybox
[2025-11-10T21:30:50Z] <sad_plan> so uutils development is SLOW then
[2025-11-10T21:30:59Z] <sad_plan> isnt toybox dev also really slow going?
[2025-11-10T21:31:03Z] <sad_plan> aswell i mean
[2025-11-10T21:31:07Z] <midfavila> >we're gonna rewrite linux in rust and replace gnu-utils with rust utils and switch to wayland!!!
[2025-11-10T21:31:09Z] <dilyn> ah ever since Canonical showed immense interest we're now on 0.4 in the span of like, six months
[2025-11-10T21:31:10Z] <midfavila> >everything breaks
[2025-11-10T21:31:16Z] <midfavila> >how could this have happened!?!?!
[2025-11-10T21:31:17Z] <dilyn> so it's going faster. fixing a lot of bugs, performance problems
[2025-11-10T21:31:28Z] <dilyn> who could have guessed huh mid :P 
[2025-11-10T21:31:29Z] <sad_plan> so progress, if anything atleast
[2025-11-10T21:31:38Z] <sad_plan> right on mid
[2025-11-10T21:31:53Z] <midfavila> i wonder how hyperbsd is doing
[2025-11-10T21:31:56Z] <dilyn> the irony is that they have incredibly good gnu test coverage. so at least we're failing in expected ways, usually...
[2025-11-10T21:32:27Z] <sad_plan> hyperbsd, as in the hyperbola linux right?
[2025-11-10T21:32:35Z] <midfavila> yesn't
[2025-11-10T21:32:38Z] <dilyn> didn't that die years ago
[2025-11-10T21:32:49Z] <midfavila> nos
[2025-11-10T21:33:00Z] <sad_plan> that sounds less awefull than failing in unexpected ways atleast :p
[2025-11-10T21:33:00Z] <dilyn> oh, wow. neat
[2025-11-10T21:33:14Z] <midfavila> they're maintaining their last revision of hyper gnu/linux while rebasing things on a fork of openbsd
[2025-11-10T21:33:17Z] <midfavila> or w/e
[2025-11-10T21:33:31Z] <midfavila> they already use a bunch of openbsd shit anyway like xenocara
[2025-11-10T21:33:33Z] <dilyn> yeah I just wish they'd fix the printf performance cus it suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccckkks and everything I do is printf >=| 
[2025-11-10T21:33:42Z] <dilyn> why use dash as /bin/sh if your printf is gonna womp anyways smh
[2025-11-10T21:33:45Z] <midfavila> puts gang
[2025-11-10T21:33:52Z] <dilyn> lol
[2025-11-10T21:34:13Z] <midfavila> ugh i wish i could work less so i could get back into programming
[2025-11-10T21:34:15Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2025-11-10T21:34:30Z] <dilyn> I can't get too invested in hyperbsd. I need to focus up. the moment I can reliably use LXD in KISS, I'm outtie 
[2025-11-10T21:34:40Z] <midfavila> LXD?
[2025-11-10T21:34:41Z] <midfavila> also
[2025-11-10T21:34:43Z] <midfavila> re:hyperbsd
[2025-11-10T21:34:52Z] <midfavila> i'm just going to replace linux with it once it's ready
[2025-11-10T21:35:04Z] <midfavila> and all my software is just makefile versions of my kiss linux build scripts
[2025-11-10T21:35:15Z] <midfavila> so it should be pretty easy in theory to replace linux in kiss with hyperbsd
[2025-11-10T21:35:25Z] <midfavila> since hbsd is just going to be a kernel instead of also a userland and everything else
[2025-11-10T21:35:54Z] <dilyn> lxd is how I use snaps on a musl system :D container trickery
[2025-11-10T21:36:02Z] <midfavila> disgusting
[2025-11-10T21:36:03Z] <dilyn> haven't tested it but perhaps, hopepfully, it Jus Twerks :tm:
[2025-11-10T21:36:03Z] <midfavila> banned
[2025-11-10T21:36:19Z] <midfavila> that reminds me, i need to experiment with conty...
[2025-11-10T21:36:23Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: wont it just be kiss bsd at that point? :P
[2025-11-10T21:36:48Z] <midfavila> basically 
[2025-11-10T21:37:01Z] <dilyn> snaps are great, Mid. I love snaps 
[2025-11-10T21:37:03Z] <dilyn> I'll stan snaps all day
[2025-11-10T21:37:10Z] <dilyn> my NAS is ubuntu core. 100% snaps
[2025-11-10T21:37:11Z] <midfavila> i'll snap you
[2025-11-10T21:37:12Z] <midfavila> >:c
[2025-11-10T21:37:19Z] <dilyn> do it, coward
[2025-11-10T21:37:32Z] <midfavila> i am going to visit america in december 
[2025-11-10T21:37:35Z] <midfavila> so
[2025-11-10T21:37:55Z] <dilyn> good luck finding me 
[2025-11-10T21:37:58Z] <sad_plan> right. ehawkvu also did something like that, although it was with freebsd instead. it didnt really fan out though
[2025-11-10T21:38:15Z] <midfavila> it can't be hard to pick you out of a crowd of like 360mil people
[2025-11-10T21:38:24Z] <midfavila> sad_plan yeah but fbsd is lame and shit and cringe
[2025-11-10T21:38:47Z] <dilyn> yeah just look for the pretentious loon still wearing skinny jeans in their thirties
[2025-11-10T21:39:01Z] <sad_plan> perhaps, but it was atleast with bsd. maybe it wouldve been better if it were openbsd, or netbsd. I dunno. im not really all that familiar with bsd's
[2025-11-10T21:39:03Z] <midfavila> i WILL build my shitbox hugbox and i WILL run barely functional software on it purely for the sake of being contrarian
[2025-11-10T21:39:11Z] <midfavila> and it's going to be fucking awesome
[2025-11-10T21:39:47Z] <sad_plan> its probably gonna suck donkey balls, but youll love it regardless, and we're all gonna have fun anyhow
[2025-11-10T21:39:52Z] <midfavila> oh wow another day with near record temperatures
[2025-11-10T21:40:01Z] <midfavila> 12C in early-mid november
[2025-11-10T21:40:08Z] <midfavila> also fuck you it's gonna be comfy
[2025-11-10T21:40:14Z] <sad_plan> its only 6C here
[2025-11-10T21:40:16Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2025-11-10T21:40:18Z] <sad_plan> perhaps
[2025-11-10T21:41:35Z] <sad_plan> curious as to why hyperbola doesnt mention anything bsd in their news on the website
[2025-11-10T21:42:26Z] <midfavila> https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:manual:contrib:hyperbolabsd_roadmap&redirect=1
[2025-11-10T21:43:12Z] <midfavila> they seem like they're getting close to an alpha release
[2025-11-10T21:43:20Z] <midfavila> porting musl rn
[2025-11-10T21:44:39Z] <sad_plan> thought they wouldve just used the openbsd libc instead? oh well
[2025-11-10T21:44:50Z] <sad_plan> also thought musl was more portable than that, 
[2025-11-10T21:45:04Z] <sad_plan> meaning musl should build on bsd to begin with
[2025-11-10T21:45:42Z] <midfavila> well, obsd has its own c lib that it's developed in tandem with, afaik
[2025-11-10T21:45:51Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2025-11-10T21:46:29Z] <midfavila> ya
[2025-11-10T21:47:54Z] <sad_plan> nice to see it going forward. might be an interesting project once its more done. with everything being linux, and new bsd could be a breath of fresh air if anything