[2025-11-11T03:36:51Z] omg, dilyn I had a look at toybox again after you mentioned it earlier, and I must say, landley is persistent. Ill give him that. i looked up posix in the issues, and even back in 2017, he still argued against POSIX sh because *muh toysh some time in the distant future will happen* [2025-11-11T03:38:33Z] its closing in on 10 years soon, still no toysh, still using bash, even though people argue against it. landley has nothing to loose here if he just went with POSIX sh like people asked for. this is just ridiculous at this point lol [2025-11-11T07:43:03Z] yeah I had that exact conclusion a few months back when I was revisiting KISS and I tried my damnedest to find an adequate replacement [2025-11-11T07:43:07Z] the mission failed (: [2025-11-11T07:46:36Z] oh idr if I mentioned it kris_ -- did end up resolving my buffering issue tho! it was indeed a network bottleneck; switched from wifi to cat6a and we stream like a dream [2025-11-11T15:41:04Z] dilyn: hell yeah [2025-11-11T15:56:09Z] im kind of a wifi hater in general [2025-11-11T15:56:30Z] its just never a good experience, i mostly only have an AP for my family [2025-11-11T17:15:17Z] ive been drinknig is mid here [2025-11-11T17:16:15Z] i joined thw wrong irc and asked that i was liek who are these people [2025-11-11T17:16:27Z] said omg lolllll to something i didnt even know what it was [2025-11-11T17:17:00Z] ok [2025-11-11T18:24:45Z] lmao [2025-11-11T18:40:47Z] kri_ [2025-11-11T18:40:51Z] kris [2025-11-11T18:40:56Z] kris_ [2025-11-11T18:43:33Z] eva [2025-11-11T18:43:36Z] evahasarrived: [2025-11-11T18:43:40Z] ecah [2025-11-11T18:44:17Z] i do not want to be on campus right now [2025-11-11T18:44:57Z] ok [2025-11-11T18:45:00Z] i miss u [2025-11-11T18:45:04Z] so much [2025-11-11T18:45:18Z] im literally right here wym [2025-11-11T18:47:03Z] sorry [2025-11-11T18:47:08Z] are y mad at me [2025-11-11T18:47:44Z] i dont think so [2025-11-11T18:50:49Z] ok me too [2025-11-11T20:07:50Z] Ayo [2025-11-11T20:07:51Z] https://github.com/dylanaraps [2025-11-11T20:07:54Z] > Coming very soon. [2025-11-11T20:22:54Z] i bet he's just fucking with us [2025-11-11T21:25:23Z] dilyn: so basically you ended up still wanting to use toybox regardless? :p nevertheless its not too detrimental though. its just a few scripts to fix really. it is an annoyance though to say the least [2025-11-11T21:26:56Z] kris_: im starting to think that too really [2025-11-11T22:01:30Z] top tier troll strats [2025-11-11T22:01:37Z] i suppose we will see [2025-11-11T22:01:47Z] sad_plan: i tried a few alternatives, but nothing has as much covergae or a non-GPL license :| [2025-11-11T22:02:05Z] you dont like the gpl? [2025-11-11T22:02:17Z] naw [2025-11-11T22:02:44Z] if this were another platform id send a judgmental cat gif [2025-11-11T22:03:13Z] * kris_ casually using gnu coreutils and nothing else [2025-11-11T22:03:30Z] lol [2025-11-11T22:03:54Z] I went gnu-free to piss of the gnutists [2025-11-11T22:04:07Z] gnustics? [2025-11-11T22:04:11Z] what's a god word [2025-11-11T22:04:13Z] i avoid gnu stuff often but its more because of shit quality code [2025-11-11T22:04:19Z] im a big fan of the gpl [2025-11-11T22:04:25Z] heh [2025-11-11T22:04:48Z] gnu coreutils just because i dont feel like migrating my void installs to busybox [2025-11-11T22:04:51Z] no real point [2025-11-11T22:04:51Z] I'm not qualified to judge the quality of others' code :X [2025-11-11T22:05:14Z] i say that mostly because im pretty familiar with a lot of languages and generally can actually read what im looking at [2025-11-11T22:05:20Z] with most of gnus stuff that's just not the case [2025-11-11T22:05:28Z] speaking in enchanting table runes i swear [2025-11-11T22:05:37Z] something something My ExTeNsIoNs [2025-11-11T22:05:40Z] in reality it's just annoying to navigate [2025-11-11T22:05:50Z] theres so much shit there and its like, layered [2025-11-11T22:07:54Z] unfortunately shit like that is common practice [2025-11-11T22:08:06Z] I'm trying to untaggle this stupid BSP for some hardware I'm working with and it's a mess [2025-11-11T22:08:15Z] nobody understands *writing things down* and *linear thinking* [2025-11-11T22:08:56Z] writing things down is dumb [2025-11-11T22:09:12Z] i need to figure out a reasonable way to organize docs at some point [2025-11-11T22:09:22Z] right now i just have hundreds of plaintext files everywhere [2025-11-11T22:12:28Z] lord have mercy [2025-11-11T22:25:37Z] whhat the heck where did all my movies go [2025-11-11T22:31:04Z] eated [2025-11-11T22:43:24Z] dilyn: what about the different bsd utils? chimera for one uses freebsd's utils iirc [2025-11-11T22:46:13Z] good night kris ily [2025-11-11T22:46:19Z] did i type too early  iyhtink i did [2025-11-11T22:46:23Z] good night kris ily [2025-11-11T22:46:25Z] chimera doesn't have nearly enough coverage [2025-11-11T22:46:31Z] also oddly a super mega bitch to build [2025-11-11T22:47:25Z] dilyn do u still udapte kde [2025-11-11T22:50:58Z] okay good tysm [2025-11-11T22:51:15Z] no but PRs are always welcome [2025-11-11T22:52:57Z] soz [2025-11-11T22:53:04Z] im sure ur nice dilyn [2025-11-11T22:53:14Z] I'm fine [2025-11-11T22:59:30Z] doesnt it just use meson to build? it did in the past, but I havent really checked it out for quite some time now [2025-11-11T23:00:12Z] the dependencies, I mean. they're annoying [2025-11-11T23:00:27Z] but also, while it does use meson, if you use muon you might accidentally fsck yourself lmfaoooo [2025-11-11T23:00:53Z] somehow everything *but* its main lib got installed, so I was left with zero utilities to fix it :V :V :V [2025-11-11T23:01:48Z] kris_ [2025-11-11T23:01:51Z] lol good one. the depenency list isnt that bad. meson, flex byacc and libxo? I guess its obviously worse than sbase/ubase, busybox and toybox though.. [2025-11-11T23:03:18Z] i mean, it could be worse anyhow. flex and byacc is at the very least a non-issue imo, your likely already have that installed. meson aswell, but not from the start perhaps.. [2025-11-11T23:04:34Z] also, what coverage does toybox has, that toybox has? [2025-11-11T23:04:41Z] the fact that I need libxo, flex, and byacc to build it when I don't need that for the alternatives *is* the issue [2025-11-11T23:05:06Z] toybox has basically every utility under the sun. if you're adventurous enough you can replace most of a lot of things lol [2025-11-11T23:05:53Z] im drunk and if ont care but why does toybox need bash [2025-11-11T23:09:12Z] I suppose youre right. im having a less issue regarding flex/byacc though, seeing as those already exists on your system for other stuff anyway. I could live with those, less so libxo and meson though really. [2025-11-11T23:09:42Z] so landley has finally implented all the missing stuff now? last time I used toybox, it lacked a lot of stuff. or stuff was not done yet [2025-11-11T23:11:14Z] evahasarrived: because toysh will some time in the distant future exist. which will be *bash like*. so according to landley, its a non-issue. however, toysh still not been made into a usable state, after now almost 10 years [2025-11-11T23:11:52Z] I think this is a real issue, but landley just doesnt agree and refuse to budge, even though this wouldnt really affect the project at all really [2025-11-11T23:12:10Z] oh he hasnt' finished much of anything but more things moved out of experimental at least haha [2025-11-11T23:12:16Z] even the experimental stuff is largely usable [2025-11-11T23:12:34Z] also I don't have flex or byacc installed on my system 24/7! you don't need them for everything :v [2025-11-11T23:13:06Z] landley wants to prove a point because he's a first principles guy. it's annoying because his first principle doesn't exist yet and hasn't for ten years lmfaoooo [2025-11-11T23:14:05Z] evahasarrived [2025-11-11T23:14:28Z] theyre talking abot toys [2025-11-11T23:14:33Z] somebody please get me out of here [2025-11-11T23:16:21Z] I've not used toybox before [2025-11-11T23:16:26Z] seems interesting [2025-11-11T23:16:50Z] so development is still taking a snail's pace I see. but yeah, I recall using some of the experimental stuff, and most of what I used just worked anyway. some stuff was a bit iffy, but it kinda worked anyhow [2025-11-11T23:17:07Z] dilyn thats exacly what makes his whole deal utterly ridiculous.. [2025-11-11T23:17:50Z] if toysh was at the very least in some regard usable, say at the very least be able to build toybox, noone would probably have an issue with this, but thats not the case. not by a longshot [2025-11-11T23:17:57Z] evahasarrived: toybox is an alternative to busybox [2025-11-11T23:18:07Z] ? i know [2025-11-11T23:18:43Z] kris_: toybox is interesting, atleast as an alternativ to busybox. I dont have much need for what sbase/ubase doesnt provide, so I dont see the point of switching [2025-11-11T23:19:09Z] busybox on its own usually gives me the whole of exactly what i need [2025-11-11T23:19:24Z] works out well especially given that busybox has runit for service management [2025-11-11T23:19:33Z] which is the only thing for that ive liked [2025-11-11T23:19:53Z] though I'm partial to cruxs init scripts but i havent tried that yet [2025-11-11T23:20:50Z] i can't believe ive hit this point but im starting to think parallelizing service startup is a bad thing [2025-11-11T23:22:28Z] oasis' init scripts is better C: [2025-11-11T23:22:48Z] cruxs seem like an oddly perfect middleground for me [2025-11-11T23:22:55Z] im just not a big fan of the rest of crux [2025-11-11T23:23:00Z] why is that a bad thing? i mean, if things can start in parallel, I dont see an issue with it. as long as it does make things more complex [2025-11-11T23:23:04Z] I see [2025-11-11T23:23:13Z] just racey services is all [2025-11-11T23:23:24Z] its easily fixable but id rather it just have a designated order [2025-11-11T23:23:43Z] single file line lads [2025-11-11T23:24:45Z] hm, I see. I start all my services simutlaniosuly [2025-11-11T23:24:55Z] it works sufficently [2025-11-11T23:25:31Z] rcsm which is my service manager is also mostly just a wrapper for starting/stopping services manually [2025-11-11T23:25:41Z] it just got on my nerves the other day because blocky (the dns proxy i use on my dns box) was coming up before dhcpcd had a chance to grab an IP [2025-11-11T23:26:39Z] well in your case, I get that this could be an issue. but that could be fixed by doing a check inside blocky's service script imo [2025-11-11T23:26:43Z] luckily blocky has an option to just fail immediately [2025-11-11T23:26:54Z] sad_plan: thing is, checking the service is immaterial [2025-11-11T23:27:03Z] so id have to grep for an IP [2025-11-11T23:27:10Z] the dumbest thing about this whole toysh thing is it is just entirely unusable. it's not even that it's just missing *some* stuff. you literally can't use it [2025-11-11T23:27:14Z] which i did before finding that blocky option [2025-11-11T23:27:29Z] s6 is the way for service management tho [2025-11-11T23:27:47Z] i like the way it is on freebsd [2025-11-11T23:27:58Z] which crux emulates [2025-11-11T23:28:15Z] kris_: you only need to check if its running. but no matter, if it works, it works I guess [2025-11-11T23:28:38Z] thing is theres a perfect timing where the dhcpcd service is up but no IP has been set yet which makes blocky fail [2025-11-11T23:28:44Z] i did infact try this [2025-11-11T23:29:07Z] dilyn: which makes the whole situation even more laughable really. I get that he wants toysh to be a thing, but ffs, if this was so important, im curious as to why tf he hasnt made any progress on it. at the very least, fix it so that it can build toybox [2025-11-11T23:29:18Z] there's a few ways around this but in general its slightly annoying [2025-11-11T23:29:20Z] also s6 is too complex. rcsm is sufficient :D [2025-11-11T23:29:52Z] kris_: just use sleep command, easy peasy [2025-11-11T23:30:00Z] kris_ [2025-11-11T23:30:02Z] check if ip exists, no? sleep, try again [2025-11-11T23:30:58Z] or have your service manager just try to rerun it, which would probably be the obvious choice for people using service managers which supports that [2025-11-11T23:34:20Z] kris_ [2025-11-11T23:35:36Z] fime [2025-11-11T23:37:15Z] evah WAT [2025-11-11T23:37:27Z] i had to sudden disappear because someone showed up [2025-11-11T23:37:47Z] sad_plan: sleep is built in i just dont love that solution [2025-11-11T23:38:00Z] regardless problems fixed anyway [2025-11-11T23:39:41Z] hello :b