[2025-12-25T00:30:24Z] <kris_> wtf
[2025-12-25T00:31:31Z] <sad_plan> kris_: yep
[2025-12-25T00:33:34Z] <kris_> first time i've seen that
[2025-12-25T00:35:31Z] <kris_> midfavila: wdym you're putting me in your game
[2025-12-25T00:35:51Z] <sad_plan> yeah, there has been a user or two here, but not to this extent by a long shot
[2025-12-25T00:49:09Z] <midfavila> kris_: i mean i'm going to turn you into a hat
[2025-12-25T00:49:18Z] <midfavila> there are only two types of people on the rim
[2025-12-25T00:49:28Z] <midfavila> people who don't ask questions, and hats
[2025-12-25T00:51:49Z] <midfavila> god my computer is *screaming* trying to handle rimworld
[2025-12-25T01:41:34Z] <kris_> midfavila: a hat??
[2025-12-25T01:44:18Z] <phoebos> happy christmas
[2025-12-25T01:44:31Z] <kris_> you too
[2025-12-25T01:44:34Z] <phoebos> the spam was libera-wide apparently 
[2025-12-25T01:44:45Z] <kris_> i suspect i will now be kicked by midfavila every time i mention microwaving my tea
[2025-12-25T01:44:55Z] <kris_> (/s, probably)
[2025-12-25T01:44:58Z] <phoebos> good riddance 
[2025-12-25T01:45:02Z] <kris_> :c
[2025-12-25T01:45:07Z] <kris_> and yeah it's all over the place
[2025-12-25T01:45:18Z] <kris_> i wonder if that's the first time something has happened at that scale, first time ive seen it
[2025-12-25T01:55:33Z] <midfavila> waow is this my christmas gift phoebos 
[2025-12-25T01:55:54Z] <midfavila> also yes this is a kettle territory
[2025-12-25T01:55:55Z] <phoebos> lucky you
[2025-12-25T01:56:02Z] <phoebos> you better be good
[2025-12-25T01:56:07Z] <midfavila> what
[2025-12-25T01:56:12Z] <midfavila> i'm the best behaved person here
[2025-12-25T01:56:14Z] <midfavila> uwu
[2025-12-25T01:56:26Z] <phoebos> also i don't know how to make +o permanent
[2025-12-25T01:56:39Z] <midfavila> o
[2025-12-25T01:56:53Z] <phoebos> :o
[2025-12-25T01:56:58Z] <kris_> o/
[2025-12-25T01:57:05Z] <midfavila> i'm sure libera has stuff on their site about it
[2025-12-25T01:57:16Z] <kris_> midfavila: you're a kettle
[2025-12-25T01:57:30Z] <midfavila> better a kettle than a nettle
[2025-12-25T01:57:39Z] <kris_> mom's spaghettle
[2025-12-25T01:57:58Z] <midfavila> fo shizzle my rizzle
[2025-12-25T01:58:02Z] <midfavila> word
[2025-12-25T01:58:14Z] <kris_> do you know those like fucking gigantic clocks on gold chains
[2025-12-25T01:58:19Z] <kris_> like the necklaces
[2025-12-25T01:58:21Z] <midfavila> lmao yes
[2025-12-25T01:58:22Z] <kris_> i want one so bad
[2025-12-25T01:58:23Z] <kris_> lmfao
[2025-12-25T01:58:29Z] <midfavila> you fucking would
[2025-12-25T01:58:37Z] <kris_> let me be silLY
[2025-12-25T01:58:41Z] <midfavila> no
[2025-12-25T01:58:43Z] <midfavila> no fun allowed
[2025-12-25T01:58:47Z] <midfavila> look at me
[2025-12-25T01:58:49Z] <midfavila> *i* am the op now
[2025-12-25T01:58:54Z] <kris_> look at me yourself 
[2025-12-25T01:58:56Z] <kris_> >:(
[2025-12-25T01:59:01Z] <kris_> i also need heelys
[2025-12-25T01:59:01Z] <midfavila> naw
[2025-12-25T01:59:11Z] <midfavila> you're not getting fucking heelies
[2025-12-25T01:59:15Z] <kris_> and a sick ass yoyo that doesn't have the string attached to it
[2025-12-25T01:59:17Z] <kris_> so i can do sick tricks
[2025-12-25T01:59:17Z] <midfavila> jfc you're like ten 
[2025-12-25T01:59:41Z] <kris_> the clock chain was not something on my mind when i was 10
[2025-12-25T01:59:46Z] <kris_> this is an early 20s revelation
[2025-12-25T02:00:20Z] * midfavila rubs his eyes
[2025-12-25T02:00:35Z] <kris_> picture those "got milk?" posters but like
[2025-12-25T02:00:40Z] <kris_> it's me with a gold clock chain saying "got the time?"
[2025-12-25T02:01:28Z] <kris_> real talk though, that just dug up a memory of the book fair with those really goofy "ipawd" apple posters with a dog listening to an ipod or something
[2025-12-25T02:01:41Z] <phoebos> I want a yoyo
[2025-12-25T02:01:47Z] <kris_> they're really fun
[2025-12-25T02:01:48Z] <phoebos> schlemihl
[2025-12-25T02:01:59Z] <midfavila> phoebos: https://libera.chat/guides/creatingchannels#setting-up-permissions
[2025-12-25T02:02:02Z] <midfavila> yw
[2025-12-25T02:03:04Z] <midfavila> i really gotta reprogram this trackball holy shit
[2025-12-25T02:03:06Z] <phoebos> yes apparently i don't have permission
[2025-12-25T02:03:13Z] <midfavila> wat
[2025-12-25T02:03:20Z] <midfavila> would it be dilyn then?
[2025-12-25T02:03:39Z] <midfavila> dilyn get on and make me supreme dictator of #kisslinux
[2025-12-25T02:03:50Z] <kris_> have you heard from eva recently
[2025-12-25T02:03:58Z] <midfavila> nop
[2025-12-25T02:03:59Z] <kris_> just curious because she hasn't popped up in a while
[2025-12-25T02:04:09Z] <midfavila> legend says she still lurks in the shadows
[2025-12-25T02:04:11Z] <midfavila> watching
[2025-12-25T02:04:12Z] <midfavila> waiting
[2025-12-25T02:04:17Z] <phoebos> maybe dilyn or kiedtl
[2025-12-25T02:04:27Z] <midfavila> shit i haven't seen kiedtl in years
[2025-12-25T02:04:43Z] <phoebos> now called cot or smthg
[2025-12-25T02:04:54Z] <midfavila> o
[2025-12-25T02:07:19Z] <kris_> i tried rimworld a while ago and couldn't really get into it
[2025-12-25T02:07:49Z] <kris_> factorio got me though
[2025-12-25T02:07:52Z] <kris_> albeit i havent played it in a long time
[2025-12-25T03:44:45Z] <midfavila> fuck i hate discord so much it's such a piece of shit
[2025-12-25T03:44:56Z] <midfavila> actual garbage
[2025-12-25T03:44:59Z] <midfavila> how do people use this???
[2025-12-25T03:46:32Z] <midfavila> like oh my god teamspeak was infinitely better
[2025-12-25T04:11:43Z] <midfavila> and now i'm fiddling with the software you use to configure QMK stuff and apparently you need a web browser with a fucking USB HID STACK AND LET IT ACCESS YOUR DEVICES DIRECTLY TO DO THIS
[2025-12-25T04:11:47Z] <midfavila> and ALSO
[2025-12-25T04:12:03Z] <midfavila> the ONLY browsers that implement this so-called fuckin "STANDARD" ARE CHROMIUM-BASED
[2025-12-25T04:12:15Z] <midfavila> open source HID firmware my fucking ass 
[2025-12-25T04:12:52Z] <midfavila> lemme use what amounts to a proprietary protocol in what might as well be proprietary software to update my 'open source' firmware
[2025-12-25T04:12:55Z] <midfavila> great idea guys
[2025-12-25T04:12:57Z] <midfavila> fucking hell
[2025-12-25T04:13:15Z] <kris_> yeah QMK is dogshit
[2025-12-25T04:13:22Z] <kris_> im glad you feel me on this because 99% of people call me insane
[2025-12-25T04:13:28Z] <midfavila> i mean
[2025-12-25T04:13:29Z] <midfavila> look
[2025-12-25T04:13:31Z] <midfavila> right
[2025-12-25T04:13:38Z] <midfavila> i used to have a risers adapter for my m122 
[2025-12-25T04:13:42Z] <midfavila> before that fucker stole all my shit
[2025-12-25T04:13:47Z] <midfavila> *that* is what i expected
[2025-12-25T04:13:50Z] <kris_> the mnt keyboard is infinitely better because you can just edit some C files and flash the firmware onto it if you want to change things
[2025-12-25T04:14:11Z] <kris_> albeit way overpriced for what it is
[2025-12-25T04:14:14Z] <midfavila> you punch some shit into a text file, compile it into bytecode, and then use a little utility that basically just sends a special scancode sequence to the adapter
[2025-12-25T04:14:29Z] <midfavila> and then sends the bytecode along 
[2025-12-25T04:14:32Z] <midfavila> and then it just werks
[2025-12-25T04:14:51Z] <midfavila> why the FUCK do i need to install chromium to use a webapp that DEMANDS CHIPSET ACCESS FOR MY FUCKING MOUSE just to update the firmware
[2025-12-25T04:14:56Z] <midfavila> like what the FUCK were they thinking
[2025-12-25T04:15:30Z] <midfavila> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMuHuJJR6-I
[2025-12-25T04:15:37Z] <midfavila> unironically me rn
[2025-12-25T04:15:42Z] <midfavila> crashing out so hard
[2025-12-25T04:15:57Z] <kris_> also yeah idk discord is pretty bad imo but not for the reasons most people point out
[2025-12-25T04:16:09Z] <midfavila> there's a million reasons discord is ass
[2025-12-25T04:16:14Z] <kris_> its concerning when i talk about something in DMs with people and then suddenly start getting ads for it online
[2025-12-25T04:16:17Z] <kris_> whatever i was discussing
[2025-12-25T04:16:20Z] <midfavila> from their security being- yeah
[2025-12-25T04:16:25Z] <midfavila> they have shit security and privacy 
[2025-12-25T04:16:32Z] <kris_> i cant get most people to use anything else so
[2025-12-25T04:16:35Z] <midfavila> and try to force you to waive rights
[2025-12-25T04:16:38Z] <midfavila> which is *illegal*
[2025-12-25T04:16:45Z] <midfavila> afaik you can't waive your right to a class action
[2025-12-25T04:16:54Z] <kris_> https://github.com/Vencord/Vesktop
[2025-12-25T04:16:57Z] <kris_> idk if it helps you at all but i use this
[2025-12-25T04:16:57Z] <midfavila> but beyond THAT
[2025-12-25T04:17:01Z] <midfavila> they fucking
[2025-12-25T04:17:05Z] <midfavila> BAN third party clients 
[2025-12-25T04:17:06Z] <kris_> clientside telemetry disabled and whatnot
[2025-12-25T04:17:06Z] <midfavila> AND
[2025-12-25T04:17:13Z] <kris_> they don't ban third party clients, they ban certain behaviors
[2025-12-25T04:17:17Z] <midfavila> then there's the whole being a process monitor
[2025-12-25T04:17:19Z] <kris_> like message logging isnt allowed for example
[2025-12-25T04:17:26Z] <midfavila> since when did they stop banning third party clients?
[2025-12-25T04:17:32Z] <kris_> forever ago
[2025-12-25T04:17:33Z] <midfavila> also, fuck you, i'll log my messages if i want
[2025-12-25T04:17:37Z] <midfavila> fucking cunts
[2025-12-25T04:17:38Z] <midfavila> UGH
[2025-12-25T04:17:41Z] <kris_> vesktop is pretty decent
[2025-12-25T04:17:50Z] <midfavila> not if it doesn't have client-side logging
[2025-12-25T04:17:56Z] <kris_> and it isnt a process monitor for me because i have the flatpak container pretty fucking limited
[2025-12-25T04:18:05Z] <midfavila> okay but like
[2025-12-25T04:18:06Z] <midfavila> look 
[2025-12-25T04:18:07Z] <kris_> midfavila: they mean message logging as in you can see what people deleted and shit
[2025-12-25T04:18:14Z] <kris_> and yes vesktop literally has a toggle to enable exactly that
[2025-12-25T04:18:15Z] <kris_> lol
[2025-12-25T04:18:19Z] <midfavila> that's literally just normal logging
[2025-12-25T04:18:21Z] <midfavila> that's the entire point
[2025-12-25T04:18:27Z] <kris_> but dont send like a screenshot showing it
[2025-12-25T04:18:32Z] <kris_> because that *is* a TOS violation
[2025-12-25T04:18:33Z] <midfavila> fuck this is making my blood pressure skyrocket 
[2025-12-25T04:18:37Z] <kris_> okok
[2025-12-25T04:18:41Z] <kris_> tell me about how im a hat
[2025-12-25T04:19:10Z] <midfavila> "uUUuHHHUhUhUhhhHUhUhhHHH that's a terms of service violation sweaty, we're gonna need to ban you from accessing your primary method of communication for wanting to have a log of what's occurred"
[2025-12-25T04:19:23Z] <midfavila> fuckign reddit ass behaviour
[2025-12-25T04:19:27Z] <kris_> yeah its ridiculous but unfortunately it's the world we live in
[2025-12-25T04:19:34Z] <midfavila> no it's the world *you* live in
[2025-12-25T04:19:37Z] <kris_> i cant bring myself to disconnect from my friends
[2025-12-25T04:19:46Z] <midfavila> i flat out fucking refuse to use this shit 999/1000 times
[2025-12-25T04:20:04Z] <kris_> my main group on discord has a signal chat now but i really really really dont like signal
[2025-12-25T04:20:06Z] <midfavila> the one time in a thousand i make a burner because 'uhh mid i don't trust jitsi' and nothing works
[2025-12-25T04:20:07Z] <kris_> hot take or not i dont care
[2025-12-25T04:20:10Z] <midfavila> signal is shit too
[2025-12-25T04:20:12Z] <midfavila> fuck signal
[2025-12-25T04:20:14Z] <midfavila> *fuck* signal
[2025-12-25T04:20:17Z] <midfavila> *fuck* pisscord
[2025-12-25T04:20:22Z] <midfavila> *fuck* telegram
[2025-12-25T04:20:26Z] <kris_> signal pissed me off when they blocked people who were using a blob free client from connecting
[2025-12-25T04:20:29Z] <midfavila> *fuck* your closed off bullshit ecosystem 
[2025-12-25T04:20:31Z] <kris_> plus the whole phone number thing
[2025-12-25T04:20:48Z] <midfavila> i'm going to find a way to get rid of my phone number
[2025-12-25T04:20:58Z] <kris_> idk generally i follow a method of "if it isnt on f-droid i'm not installing it"
[2025-12-25T04:20:59Z] <midfavila> i don't fucking want to pay 50$ a month for a phone number that i DON'T USE 
[2025-12-25T04:21:02Z] <kris_> and signal isnt on f-droid
[2025-12-25T04:21:04Z] <kris_> because the client isnt foss
[2025-12-25T04:21:05Z] <kris_> so
[2025-12-25T04:21:11Z] <midfavila> like WHY CAN I NOT JUST NOT HAVE A PHONE NUMBER
[2025-12-25T04:21:23Z] <midfavila> *FUCK*
[2025-12-25T04:21:53Z] <kris_> tbh im unfamiliar with jitsi
[2025-12-25T04:22:01Z] <midfavila> god dude it's so fucking nice
[2025-12-25T04:22:03Z] <kris_> gonna have to look into this
[2025-12-25T04:22:09Z] <midfavila> it doesn't demand stupid bullshit or try to fuck you over
[2025-12-25T04:22:10Z] <kris_> and yeah ive been through that
[2025-12-25T04:22:10Z] <midfavila> it just
[2025-12-25T04:22:12Z] <midfavila> >does its job
[2025-12-25T04:22:14Z] <kris_> i tried to get my best friend to use xmpp and he was like
[2025-12-25T04:22:18Z] <kris_> "i dont trust it man idk"
[2025-12-25T04:22:23Z] <kris_> and im like dude i am literally hosting the server you connect to its fine
[2025-12-25T04:22:25Z] <midfavila> yeah i just spent 45 minutes trying to troubleshoot A/V issues on discord!!!
[2025-12-25T04:22:29Z] <kris_> and he goes on about like
[2025-12-25T04:22:37Z] <kris_> "what if xmpp isnt safe, it's worse than discord in that regard because it isnt popular"
[2025-12-25T04:22:39Z] <kris_> and im kinda just like
[2025-12-25T04:22:41Z] <kris_> dear god
[2025-12-25T04:22:52Z] <midfavila> i would tell him to fuck off because i don't like being around stupid people
[2025-12-25T04:23:03Z] <kris_> this was years ago and i havent asked him recently so
[2025-12-25T04:23:05Z] <midfavila> i really don't care how much of an asshole that makes me
[2025-12-25T04:23:07Z] <kris_> he's definitely not stupid
[2025-12-25T04:23:14Z] <kris_> maybe i should give it another try
[2025-12-25T04:23:22Z] <midfavila> in that one specific area i just have zero patience 
[2025-12-25T04:23:40Z] <midfavila> i'm not going to have twenty accounts for all the different shit 
[2025-12-25T04:23:40Z] <kris_> i have patience with a few people because ive known them for like 12 years and love them to death
[2025-12-25T04:23:50Z] <kris_> i have 1. discord 2. irc 3. email 4. sms
[2025-12-25T04:23:54Z] <kris_> those are the only options to contact me period
[2025-12-25T04:23:57Z] <kris_> or i guess physical mail
[2025-12-25T04:24:32Z] <midfavila> email, irc, xmpp 
[2025-12-25T04:24:39Z] <midfavila> and honestly even xmpp is kind of unnecessary
[2025-12-25T04:24:39Z] <kris_> i stopped hosting xmpp after a while because i couldnt really find anyone to talk to on there and got annoyed by having so many clients open
[2025-12-25T04:24:42Z] <kris_> like
[2025-12-25T04:24:51Z] <kris_> i already have senpai and discord open
[2025-12-25T04:24:59Z] <midfavila> see that's why i want to work on clients that use an interface like ii's
[2025-12-25T04:25:13Z] <kris_> libpurple would be the answer if it were still worked on in a meaningful capacity
[2025-12-25T04:25:14Z] <midfavila> then you can write a single frontend program that manages them all 
[2025-12-25T04:25:25Z] <midfavila> libpurple is being actively developed what are you on
[2025-12-25T04:25:34Z] <kris_> is it
[2025-12-25T04:25:36Z] <midfavila> they're polishing up for their first 3.x release
[2025-12-25T04:25:44Z] <kris_> havent they been polishing up for that for like, a few years
[2025-12-25T04:25:49Z] <kris_> not hating
[2025-12-25T04:25:51Z] <kris_> just genuinely asking
[2025-12-25T04:25:59Z] <midfavila> uh, yes, because it's a major change across every single aspect 
[2025-12-25T04:26:06Z] <midfavila> of the entire software package
[2025-12-25T04:26:25Z] <kris_> exciting times
[2025-12-25T04:26:30Z] <kris_> maybe pidgin will finally support omemo lol
[2025-12-25T04:26:37Z] <midfavila> it does?
[2025-12-25T04:26:41Z] <kris_> wtf
[2025-12-25T04:26:41Z] <midfavila> using lurch
[2025-12-25T04:26:54Z] <midfavila> yeah i use it all the time
[2025-12-25T04:27:00Z] <midfavila> it's comfy
[2025-12-25T04:27:10Z] <kris_> idk when i was on xmpp i just used gajim
[2025-12-25T04:27:16Z] <kris_> not a great client but its the most functional
[2025-12-25T04:27:23Z] <kris_> some of my friends really like psi+
[2025-12-25T04:27:28Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/gkdr/lurch
[2025-12-25T04:27:35Z] <midfavila> xmpp clients in general suck
[2025-12-25T04:27:46Z] <midfavila> there's no like
[2025-12-25T04:27:47Z] <kris_> yeah that's what killed it for my discord group
[2025-12-25T04:27:51Z] <midfavila> common core set of extensions
[2025-12-25T04:27:55Z] <kris_> most of them are ios users and there are zero decent ios xmpp clients
[2025-12-25T04:27:59Z] <kris_> like actually none
[2025-12-25T04:28:08Z] <kris_> like 80% of my brain goes "okay you're the one that bought an iphone"
[2025-12-25T04:28:09Z] <midfavila> everything implements its own set of extensions and they're all implemented in subtly different ways
[2025-12-25T04:28:12Z] <kris_> other 20% is like "okay whatever"
[2025-12-25T04:28:17Z] <midfavila> and it's like
[2025-12-25T04:28:19Z] <midfavila> look
[2025-12-25T04:28:25Z] <midfavila> we don't need twenty different OMEMO implementations
[2025-12-25T04:28:29Z] <midfavila> write a reference library in C
[2025-12-25T04:28:40Z] <midfavila> use your language's FFI to build that into your client
[2025-12-25T04:28:43Z] <midfavila> done
[2025-12-25T04:28:43Z] <kris_> yeah xmpp is kind of a fucking mess with that
[2025-12-25T04:28:48Z] <midfavila> like
[2025-12-25T04:28:49Z] <kris_> also can't you connect to liberachat from xmpp
[2025-12-25T04:28:53Z] <kris_> i feel like i saw that
[2025-12-25T04:28:54Z] <midfavila> again maybe i'm just ignorant
[2025-12-25T04:28:56Z] <midfavila> very possible
[2025-12-25T04:29:02Z] <midfavila> i am something of a dingus
[2025-12-25T04:29:06Z] <midfavila> but also what the fuck man
[2025-12-25T04:29:17Z] <midfavila> like i fucking hate wayland but they have this shit figured out
[2025-12-25T04:29:20Z] <midfavila> you write *one*
[2025-12-25T04:29:21Z] <midfavila> *ONE*
[2025-12-25T04:29:26Z] <midfavila> reference library
[2025-12-25T04:29:29Z] <midfavila> and then build on top of that
[2025-12-25T04:29:39Z] <kris_> im still surprised you arent a fan of wayland, i dont think ive ever asked you why that is
[2025-12-25T04:29:46Z] <midfavila> because why would i be?
[2025-12-25T04:29:53Z] <kris_> to me i'm a big fan of compositors/WMs only implementing exactly what they need and how they want to
[2025-12-25T04:29:55Z] <midfavila> it's basically linux-only and has no serious advantages over X for me
[2025-12-25T04:29:58Z] <kris_> as long as it meets the protocol and expected behavior
[2025-12-25T04:30:10Z] <midfavila> okay but X has had that since the 1980s
[2025-12-25T04:30:15Z] <kris_> and it isn't linux only, it does work on openbsd and freebsd
[2025-12-25T04:30:17Z] <kris_> netbsd is lagging behind
[2025-12-25T04:30:20Z] <midfavila> it works on free
[2025-12-25T04:30:23Z] <midfavila> open barely works
[2025-12-25T04:30:28Z] <midfavila> free had to adapt a bunch of linux shit
[2025-12-25T04:30:33Z] <kris_> the problem i can understand is like
[2025-12-25T04:30:36Z] <kris_> you're forced to use dbus
[2025-12-25T04:30:37Z] <midfavila> and also fuck freebsd
[2025-12-25T04:30:42Z] <midfavila> they're fucking corporate shills
[2025-12-25T04:30:49Z] <midfavila> they don't even use their own software
[2025-12-25T04:30:52Z] <midfavila> smdh
[2025-12-25T04:30:57Z] <kris_> i didnt even tell you about the drama i got involved in again the other day
[2025-12-25T04:31:00Z] <kris_> w the freebsd people
[2025-12-25T04:31:03Z] <midfavila> i don't even want to hear it
[2025-12-25T04:31:04Z] <kris_> i ended up escalating to some of the "OGs"
[2025-12-25T04:31:08Z] <midfavila> freebsd doesn't exist in my mind
[2025-12-25T04:31:19Z] <midfavila> it's been memoryholed along with everything red hat related
[2025-12-25T04:31:24Z] <kris_> idk there's nothing about freebsd that draws me to it other than its init structure which crux also has anyway
[2025-12-25T04:31:30Z] <midfavila> fuck now i'm thinking of this dipshit i used to talk to 
[2025-12-25T04:31:31Z] <kris_> its just watered down linux
[2025-12-25T04:31:34Z] <kris_> to me anyway
[2025-12-25T04:31:50Z] <midfavila> who always talked hot shit about how he was such a fucking genius because he had an RCSE or whatever
[2025-12-25T04:31:53Z] <kris_> except with way shittier licensing specifically to appease corpos
[2025-12-25T04:31:59Z] <kris_> i do not fuck with non gpl licenses tbh
[2025-12-25T04:32:08Z] <midfavila> freebsd's licence is annoying but like
[2025-12-25T04:32:17Z] <midfavila> what gets me with freebsd is that they have no principles
[2025-12-25T04:32:24Z] <kris_> most of my stuff is bsd-3-clause but the stuff ive written that has actual impact is gpl3
[2025-12-25T04:32:42Z] <kris_> idk the other day i saw that they had packaged xlibre
[2025-12-25T04:32:47Z] <midfavila> i hesitate to use the term because of the assocatoins it's taken on in recent years, but they constantly cuck themselves to appease corporations
[2025-12-25T04:32:48Z] <kris_> unrelated to the other drama i mentioned
[2025-12-25T04:32:52Z] <midfavila> they throw *everyone* under the bus 
[2025-12-25T04:32:53Z] <kris_> xlibre gives me the ick
[2025-12-25T04:32:54Z] <kris_> badly
[2025-12-25T04:33:00Z] <midfavila> xlibre is run by idiots
[2025-12-25T04:33:02Z] <kris_> yeah
[2025-12-25T04:33:08Z] <midfavila> i won't touch it
[2025-12-25T04:33:16Z] <kris_> i like the idea of keeping x11 going but there couldnt be a worse group of people responsible for it
[2025-12-25T04:33:25Z] <kris_> "non-political" translates to right wing extremism
[2025-12-25T04:33:27Z] <kris_> like 99% of the time
[2025-12-25T04:33:35Z] <midfavila> frankly once x.org falls apart and i can't use tinyx any longer i'll just switch to something like twin
[2025-12-25T04:33:52Z] <kris_> i have a friend who just lives in tmux and vi
[2025-12-25T04:33:57Z] <kris_> he doesnt use pretty much anything else i dont get it
[2025-12-25T04:34:00Z] <midfavila> one of the things i want to do is write a library that provides a lowest-common-denominator high level widget set with backends for like
[2025-12-25T04:34:07Z] <midfavila> xaw and curses and stuff
[2025-12-25T04:34:09Z] <midfavila> motif
[2025-12-25T04:34:10Z] <midfavila> w/e
[2025-12-25T04:34:22Z] <midfavila> and then i'm just going to use that exclusively 
[2025-12-25T04:34:34Z] <midfavila> so that if i really fucking have to i can just drop GUIs altogether
[2025-12-25T04:34:45Z] <midfavila> and idk when i was in high school i only used the tty 
[2025-12-25T04:34:48Z] <midfavila> for almost everything
[2025-12-25T04:34:55Z] <midfavila> albeit with TWIN
[2025-12-25T04:35:14Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/cosmos72/twin
[2025-12-25T04:35:27Z] <midfavila> there's been talk of adding support for window maker's dockapps 
[2025-12-25T04:35:29Z] <kris_> idk i gulped down the wayland pill years ago just because i wanted my monitors to work
[2025-12-25T04:35:31Z] <midfavila> which would be pretty wild
[2025-12-25T04:35:42Z] <midfavila> i will literally use a fucking braille display before wayland
[2025-12-25T04:35:45Z] <midfavila> i REFUSE
[2025-12-25T04:35:51Z] <midfavila> you will have to fucking shoot me
[2025-12-25T04:35:56Z] <midfavila> before i install wayland
[2025-12-25T04:36:09Z] <kris_> welp, so be it
[2025-12-25T04:36:13Z] * kris_ gets out his nerf maverick
[2025-12-25T04:36:14Z] <midfavila> X *just* fucking *works*
[2025-12-25T04:36:19Z] <midfavila> it's simple
[2025-12-25T04:36:21Z] <midfavila> it's efficient
[2025-12-25T04:36:28Z] <midfavila> it's supported *everywhere*
[2025-12-25T04:36:36Z] <midfavila> it's *flexible*
[2025-12-25T04:36:54Z] <kris_> idk im more angry with the fucks @ gnome than i am wayland
[2025-12-25T04:36:57Z] <midfavila> like okay sure there are certain usecases in, maybe, idk, ultra-high security environments where it's not the most suitable 
[2025-12-25T04:37:01Z] <midfavila> fuck gnome too
[2025-12-25T04:37:05Z] <midfavila> i've memory-holed gnome
[2025-12-25T04:37:13Z] <midfavila> i mentally lump them in with red hat
[2025-12-25T04:37:21Z] <kris_> i was such a heavy gnome user for so long
[2025-12-25T04:37:24Z] <midfavila> gnome isn't even part of gnu as far as i'm concerned
[2025-12-25T04:37:29Z] <midfavila> i don't care what the official stance is
[2025-12-25T04:37:31Z] <kris_> but now it's like 
[2025-12-25T04:37:31Z] <kris_> dude
[2025-12-25T04:37:39Z] <midfavila> they're just insane
[2025-12-25T04:37:41Z] <kris_> okay if you're going to keep trying to prevent me from using runit im just not going to use your DE
[2025-12-25T04:38:04Z] <midfavila> i'm just tired of everything being its own little fucking sandbox
[2025-12-25T04:38:14Z] <midfavila> everything has to be isolated from everything else. like, on a protocol level, i mean
[2025-12-25T04:38:27Z] <kris_> tale as old as time with linux i'm afraid
[2025-12-25T04:38:28Z] <midfavila> you can't just have *one* standard for shit and then target that, nooooooooooooooooooooooo
[2025-12-25T04:38:33Z] <midfavila> you need all this bullshit
[2025-12-25T04:38:35Z] <midfavila> and NO it isn't
[2025-12-25T04:38:46Z] <midfavila> sure, there's been fragmentation in the unix world 
[2025-12-25T04:38:51Z] <midfavila> at times it's been seriously bad
[2025-12-25T04:38:58Z] <midfavila> like MOTIF vs Openlook
[2025-12-25T04:39:08Z] <midfavila> but EVEN THEN there were still common underlying standards
[2025-12-25T04:39:13Z] <midfavila> in that case, Xt and X11
[2025-12-25T04:39:27Z] <midfavila> you can use openlook and motif widgets in the *same application* if you want to
[2025-12-25T04:39:42Z] <midfavila> and it *just fucking works*
[2025-12-25T04:39:47Z] <kris_> so this is totally like backtracking but does jitsi have screensharing
[2025-12-25T04:39:50Z] <midfavila> yes
[2025-12-25T04:39:52Z] <kris_> with audio?
[2025-12-25T04:39:54Z] <midfavila> yes
[2025-12-25T04:40:08Z] <kris_> like i can stream a video im playing in mpv and you'll be able to hear it
[2025-12-25T04:40:14Z] <midfavila> yes
[2025-12-25T04:40:16Z] <midfavila> to my knowledge
[2025-12-25T04:40:42Z] <kris_> interesting
[2025-12-25T04:40:47Z] <kris_> even discord struggles with that
[2025-12-25T04:41:10Z] <midfavila> yeah because it's dogshit
[2025-12-25T04:41:27Z] <kris_> discord just doesnt like wayland
[2025-12-25T04:41:30Z] <midfavila> discord, more like, disconnect-my-brain-cord
[2025-12-25T04:41:31Z] <kris_> and discord doesnt like pipewire
[2025-12-25T04:41:37Z] <kris_> it's agonizing
[2025-12-25T04:42:46Z] <midfavila> i just wish jitsi had an actual desktop client
[2025-12-25T04:42:57Z] <midfavila> even just a proof-of-concept command line client 
[2025-12-25T04:43:14Z] <midfavila> i mean, there *is* one, in fucking
[2025-12-25T04:43:15Z] <midfavila> NODE
[2025-12-25T04:43:42Z] <kris_> yikes
[2025-12-25T04:43:49Z] <kris_> dude mullvads vpn client is a work of art
[2025-12-25T04:44:00Z] <kris_> node for the UI + golang + rust
[2025-12-25T04:44:03Z] <kris_> all in one app
[2025-12-25T04:44:08Z] <kris_> they've hit all of the hipster shit
[2025-12-25T04:44:09Z] <midfavila> that's disgusting
[2025-12-25T04:44:16Z] <kris_> its such a nightmare to compile it man
[2025-12-25T04:44:17Z] <midfavila> i think i just had a fucking aneurysm
[2025-12-25T04:44:27Z] <midfavila> JUST USE ONE LANGUAGE FIHBDLKJFHBIDSALIKBIFEWSBFIEWBFIBEWIFOIUYBIUEW*$#W(*&GEWFE
[2025-12-25T04:44:31Z] <kris_> yeah, go
[2025-12-25T04:44:32Z] <midfavila> *ONE*
[2025-12-25T04:44:36Z] <kris_> theres a reason go is here
[2025-12-25T04:44:39Z] <midfavila> even if it's some STUPID SHIT like rust
[2025-12-25T04:44:39Z] <kris_> the other ones are like
[2025-12-25T04:44:40Z] <kris_> for why
[2025-12-25T04:44:42Z] <midfavila> just
[2025-12-25T04:44:43Z] <midfavila> USE
[2025-12-25T04:44:44Z] <midfavila> ONE
[2025-12-25T04:44:58Z] <kris_> mullvad is not standard wireguard, they have a lot of additional features that are really nice
[2025-12-25T04:45:05Z] <midfavila> if you need to use MORE than one, either embed a fucking interpreter or separate your software into discrete parts
[2025-12-25T04:45:07Z] <kris_> which is what makes me use their client for certain tasks
[2025-12-25T04:45:08Z] <midfavila> like
[2025-12-25T04:45:09Z] <midfavila> write your backend in C
[2025-12-25T04:45:18Z] <midfavila> expose its internals over some standard interface
[2025-12-25T04:45:28Z] <midfavila> and then write your frontend in ruby or python or fucklang or whatever
[2025-12-25T04:45:34Z] <midfavila> holy shit man
[2025-12-25T04:45:35Z] <kris_> when i "packaged" mullvad for void i honestly just grabbed their .deb, unpacked it, repacked it for xbps and done
[2025-12-25T04:45:40Z] <kris_> problem is they dont do musl builds because why would they
[2025-12-25T04:45:42Z] <kris_> (/s)
[2025-12-25T04:45:46Z] <kris_> to why would they i mean
[2025-12-25T04:46:01Z] <midfavila> god that's aonther thing i love about fuckin
[2025-12-25T04:46:04Z] <midfavila> appimage and flatpak and shit
[2025-12-25T04:46:12Z] <midfavila> they half-ass their sandboxing
[2025-12-25T04:46:16Z] <midfavila> they only include *some* shit
[2025-12-25T04:46:23Z] <midfavila> and the rest comes from the host system it seems
[2025-12-25T04:46:31Z] <kris_> idk the only real flatpak escape metric atm is the x11 socket
[2025-12-25T04:46:32Z] <midfavila> like what if i'm not using your fucking C library man?
[2025-12-25T04:46:36Z] <kris_> but you can't do anything about that
[2025-12-25T04:46:41Z] <kris_> midfavila: flatpaks run against glibc
[2025-12-25T04:46:42Z] <kris_> always
[2025-12-25T04:46:46Z] <kris_> appimages are the ones that arent portable
[2025-12-25T04:47:00Z] <midfavila> also
[2025-12-25T04:47:04Z] <midfavila> for your information
[2025-12-25T04:47:07Z] <midfavila> you can use Xephyr
[2025-12-25T04:47:20Z] <midfavila> to run an X11 server as an X11 client
[2025-12-25T04:47:41Z] <midfavila> so that anything connecting to Xephyr doesn't have direct access to your primary X server
[2025-12-25T04:48:25Z] <midfavila> fuck i just
[2025-12-25T04:48:31Z] <midfavila> why would you even target glibc if you want portability
[2025-12-25T04:48:42Z] <kris_> flatpaks just ball that in with the app
[2025-12-25T04:48:45Z] <kris_> generally
[2025-12-25T04:48:48Z] <midfavila> yeah i know
[2025-12-25T04:48:50Z] <midfavila> that's gross
[2025-12-25T04:48:54Z] <midfavila> glibc is huge compared to musl
[2025-12-25T04:48:58Z] <kris_> yep
[2025-12-25T04:49:06Z] <midfavila> just target musl if your portability strategy is "ship the environment"
[2025-12-25T04:49:07Z] <kris_> i know but at least flatpak works everywhere
[2025-12-25T04:49:12Z] <midfavila> you know what else works
[2025-12-25T04:49:16Z] <midfavila> fuckin static linking
[2025-12-25T04:49:21Z] <midfavila> but whoops we don't do that any more
[2025-12-25T04:49:21Z] <kris_> i get to use steam on my musl system
[2025-12-25T04:49:33Z] <midfavila> conty can do that
[2025-12-25T04:49:37Z] <kris_> ya conty is cool as fuck
[2025-12-25T04:49:40Z] <kris_> i discovered that the other day
[2025-12-25T04:50:11Z] <midfavila> ye
[2025-12-25T04:50:26Z] <kris_> but really, all of my gui apps come from flatpak
[2025-12-25T04:50:38Z] <midfavila> i basically only use the standard X11 software
[2025-12-25T04:50:40Z] <kris_> and then i get like obsessive over the sandbox for each one
[2025-12-25T04:50:49Z] <kris_> every gui app on my system has perms for exactly what it needs
[2025-12-25T04:50:51Z] <midfavila> you know what
[2025-12-25T04:50:56Z] <midfavila> you want to know what good software looks like kris_ 
[2025-12-25T04:51:02Z] <kris_> runit?
[2025-12-25T04:51:04Z] <midfavila> what i think everything should be written like
[2025-12-25T04:51:10Z] <midfavila> for like, end-user applications
[2025-12-25T04:51:12Z] <kris_> actually runits source is kinda dick
[2025-12-25T04:51:16Z] <kris_> busyboxs runit is nier
[2025-12-25T04:51:17Z] <midfavila> look at mh(1)
[2025-12-25T04:51:17Z] <kris_> nicer*
[2025-12-25T04:51:23Z] <midfavila> mh(1) isn't even a single program
[2025-12-25T04:51:39Z] <midfavila> it's a standard set of tools and data storage methods to allow for easy manipulation of email
[2025-12-25T04:51:40Z] <kris_> is mh a binary?
[2025-12-25T04:51:42Z] <midfavila> no
[2025-12-25T04:51:42Z] <kris_> doesnt seem to be in voids repos
[2025-12-25T04:51:44Z] <kris_> oh
[2025-12-25T04:51:47Z] <midfavila> mh is like
[2025-12-25T04:51:53Z] <midfavila> a spec based off the *original* mh
[2025-12-25T04:52:04Z] <kris_> i see nmh and xmh
[2025-12-25T04:52:11Z] <midfavila> that defines both a simple method of storing email *and* a set of standard command line tools to operate on them
[2025-12-25T04:52:18Z] <midfavila> nmh is one implementation of the spec
[2025-12-25T04:52:30Z] <kris_> you're gonna slap me
[2025-12-25T04:52:31Z] <midfavila> *x*mh is a graphical frontend that calls on standard mh tools to manipulate emails 
[2025-12-25T04:52:37Z] <kris_> i just use tutanotas webui for mail
[2025-12-25T04:52:46Z] <midfavila> squirrelmail is better but whatever
[2025-12-25T04:52:46Z] <kris_> i used to host my own email server but i got tired of dealing with it
[2025-12-25T04:52:54Z] <midfavila> i use mh on sdf
[2025-12-25T04:52:59Z] <kris_> and i left proton when i saw the CEO sucking up to trump 
[2025-12-25T04:53:00Z] <midfavila> but like listen
[2025-12-25T04:53:07Z] <kris_> and proton was honestly always rather suspect
[2025-12-25T04:53:07Z] <midfavila> you can write a CGI frontend for mh
[2025-12-25T04:53:10Z] <midfavila> in shell
[2025-12-25T04:53:11Z] <midfavila> and it's fine
[2025-12-25T04:53:13Z] <midfavila> it just works
[2025-12-25T04:53:36Z] <midfavila> you can do whatever you want including just calling the primitives directly because it's compliant with the unix philosophy
[2025-12-25T04:53:37Z] <kris_> sdf is interesting
[2025-12-25T04:53:47Z] <kris_> >signup for shell access
[2025-12-25T04:53:49Z] <midfavila> i rely on sdf for a lot of my daily computing needs
[2025-12-25T04:53:51Z] <kris_> do you just get literal shell access
[2025-12-25T04:53:53Z] <midfavila> yes
[2025-12-25T04:54:03Z] <midfavila> you can telnet or ssh in, or direct-dial if you have a modem
[2025-12-25T04:54:18Z] <kris_> lmao sdf has a minecraft server
[2025-12-25T04:54:21Z] <kris_> that's kind of surprising
[2025-12-25T04:54:21Z] <midfavila> yes
[2025-12-25T04:54:25Z] <midfavila> sdf has a lot of things
[2025-12-25T04:54:28Z] <midfavila> gitea
[2025-12-25T04:54:29Z] <midfavila> peertube
[2025-12-25T04:54:32Z] <midfavila> image hosting
[2025-12-25T04:54:35Z] <midfavila> rss 
[2025-12-25T04:54:39Z] <midfavila> a bulletin board
[2025-12-25T04:54:40Z] <midfavila> a MUD
[2025-12-25T04:54:47Z] <midfavila> a radio station and radio club
[2025-12-25T04:54:58Z] <midfavila> multiple on-system chat facilities 
[2025-12-25T04:55:02Z] <midfavila> USENET access
[2025-12-25T04:55:12Z] <midfavila> in america you can get DSL through them
[2025-12-25T04:55:30Z] <midfavila> they have multiple wikis for all sorts of things
[2025-12-25T04:55:39Z] <midfavila> personal web hosting, as well as gopher and gemini
[2025-12-25T04:55:49Z] <midfavila> xmpp and irc services
[2025-12-25T04:55:53Z] <midfavila> on and on 
[2025-12-25T04:56:00Z] <midfavila> best 36 bucks i've ever spent
[2025-12-25T04:56:26Z] <midfavila> probably one of the last places on the net that demands zero personal information from you, too 
[2025-12-25T04:56:27Z] <kris_> ive been kind of considering doing a similar thing
[2025-12-25T04:56:34Z] <kris_> when i was working on my SSH gaming box
[2025-12-25T04:56:52Z] <kris_> that being i discovered a tetris thing in the void repos that has 1v1s over sockets
[2025-12-25T04:56:58Z] <kris_> so users can 1v1 on tetris over ssh
[2025-12-25T04:57:05Z] <midfavila> like if you want to set up a fully-functional VM or website or whatever you can literally just mail them a couple bills and a note made out of clippings like you're the unabomber and as long as it has your username on it they'll set things up for you
[2025-12-25T04:57:49Z] <midfavila> oh, SDF also runs plan 9 services
[2025-12-25T04:58:12Z] <midfavila> you can connect to SDF's CPU server and do all your computing using their hardware remotely
[2025-12-25T04:58:24Z] <midfavila> https://web.archive.org/web/20070403082402/https://people.freedesktop.org/~mallum/xephyr-uber.png
[2025-12-25T04:58:39Z] <kris_> didnt you say this was all 1 netbsd install
[2025-12-25T04:58:49Z] <midfavila> it's not 1 netbsd install 
[2025-12-25T04:58:51Z] <kris_> oh
[2025-12-25T04:58:57Z] <midfavila> they are the largest user of netbsd in the world tho
[2025-12-25T04:59:08Z] <midfavila> they have a debian machine, some plan 9 boxes
[2025-12-25T04:59:24Z] <midfavila> but netbsd is the primary system used
[2025-12-25T04:59:40Z] <midfavila> oh, there's also a vintage computer museum run on-prem that you can telnet into 
[2025-12-25T04:59:43Z] <kris_> honestly im quite the fan of netbsd as far as the bsds go
[2025-12-25T04:59:47Z] <kris_> i dont use it for anything but its nice
[2025-12-25T04:59:51Z] <midfavila> with TOPS and DEC machines and stuff
[2025-12-25T04:59:54Z] <midfavila> and yes netbsd is comfy
[2025-12-25T04:59:55Z] <kris_> i still just use openbsd where i want a bsd
[2025-12-25T04:59:56Z] <midfavila> it's like\
[2025-12-25T05:00:00Z] <midfavila> it's an OS
[2025-12-25T05:00:03Z] <midfavila> it does OS shit and it fucks off
[2025-12-25T05:00:15Z] <midfavila> it doesn't have any fancy features 
[2025-12-25T05:00:17Z] <midfavila> it just works
[2025-12-25T05:00:19Z] <kris_> honestly the update process of openbsd is unbelievably obtuse to me
[2025-12-25T05:00:19Z] <midfavila> simple as
[2025-12-25T05:00:30Z] <midfavila> the BSDs in general don't appeal to me
[2025-12-25T05:00:30Z] <kris_> i ssh into my openbsd wireguard box once per year to do updates and it pisses me off every time
[2025-12-25T05:00:33Z] <midfavila> but i like nbsd 
[2025-12-25T05:00:34Z] <midfavila> it's comfy
[2025-12-25T05:00:42Z] <midfavila> i'm hoping hyperbsd will work out
[2025-12-25T05:01:25Z] <kris_> idk i'm pretty happy with the setup i have at the moment
[2025-12-25T05:01:29Z] <midfavila> basically people are trying to get linux-level modularity with -libre's lack of blobs using the openbsd kernel 
[2025-12-25T05:01:33Z] <kris_> havent changed anything in along time
[2025-12-25T05:01:34Z] <midfavila> it's kind of a disaster tbh
[2025-12-25T05:01:36Z] <kris_> and yeah ive seen that
[2025-12-25T05:01:40Z] <midfavila> but i hope it works out
[2025-12-25T05:01:51Z] <kris_> what's the point though
[2025-12-25T05:01:52Z] <midfavila> if netbsd was less coupled to its userland i would switch
[2025-12-25T05:02:09Z] <kris_> i mean that's kind of how the BSDs just are
[2025-12-25T05:02:15Z] <kris_> heavy integration
[2025-12-25T05:02:19Z] <midfavila> yes i'm aware
[2025-12-25T05:02:28Z] <kris_> that's also why i generally don't use them
[2025-12-25T05:02:30Z] <midfavila> the point is to have a simple, small kernel that isn't going in the direction linux is
[2025-12-25T05:02:33Z] <kris_> i like openbsd for routing though
[2025-12-25T05:03:15Z] <midfavila> like i'm just tired of linux man
[2025-12-25T05:03:31Z] <kris_> i dont think i have issues with the kernel itself
[2025-12-25T05:03:38Z] <midfavila> i'm tired of dealing with red hat shills and wayland bullshit and mozilla dicking around and having to care about poettering 
[2025-12-25T05:03:43Z] <kris_> its all the stuff that goes on top of it that has been pissing me off recently
[2025-12-25T05:03:46Z] <midfavila> i have issues with the kernel, but it's the- yeah
[2025-12-25T05:03:55Z] <midfavila> it's the whole thing
[2025-12-25T05:04:00Z] <midfavila> like, the *ecosystem*
[2025-12-25T05:04:01Z] <kris_> the moment void does something stupid idk what im going to do
[2025-12-25T05:04:05Z] <kris_> legit i have no idea
[2025-12-25T05:04:09Z] <midfavila> switch to kiss
[2025-12-25T05:04:12Z] <midfavila> become a computer smoocher
[2025-12-25T05:04:16Z] <midfavila> join the dark side
[2025-12-25T05:04:16Z] <kris_> i dont *expect* void to do something stupid
[2025-12-25T05:04:27Z] <kris_> ive just gotten myself into a mode where im always expecting good things to eat shit
[2025-12-25T05:04:31Z] <kris_> at the same time
[2025-12-25T05:04:38Z] <midfavila> literally just like me frfr!!!
[2025-12-25T05:04:44Z] <midfavila> he me frfr!
[2025-12-25T05:05:15Z] <kris_> idk kiss would be cool if i didnt need to fork pretty much the entire repo
[2025-12-25T05:05:19Z] <kris_> for the stuff that *is* there
[2025-12-25T05:05:23Z] <midfavila> that's how it is homie
[2025-12-25T05:05:33Z] <midfavila> if you want to have your hugbox you gotta set it up 
[2025-12-25T05:05:43Z] <midfavila> but once it's there you just don't need to touch it ever again
[2025-12-25T05:05:54Z] <midfavila> aside from like, updating the sources file once every few months
[2025-12-25T05:05:55Z] <kris_> maintaining updates for those packages probably sucks
[2025-12-25T05:05:57Z] <midfavila> or like, a year
[2025-12-25T05:05:58Z] <midfavila> weh?
[2025-12-25T05:05:59Z] <midfavila> no
[2025-12-25T05:06:03Z] <midfavila> it's super easy
[2025-12-25T05:06:16Z] <kris_> obviously i have no idea, i've never gotten to the point of making something out of kiss that i'd consider usable
[2025-12-25T05:06:24Z] <kris_> i'll put more time into it at some point now that i have crux packages to reference
[2025-12-25T05:06:29Z] <kris_> when i first tried kiss i didnt know crux existed
[2025-12-25T05:06:30Z] <midfavila> you literally just bump your sources and version file and regen the checksum file
[2025-12-25T05:06:37Z] <midfavila> i used to use crux
[2025-12-25T05:06:39Z] <midfavila> before kiss
[2025-12-25T05:06:41Z] <midfavila> i much prefer kiss
[2025-12-25T05:06:47Z] <midfavila> crux has way too much shit in the default setup
[2025-12-25T05:06:51Z] <kris_> i like cruxs init setup
[2025-12-25T05:06:53Z] <kris_> a lot
[2025-12-25T05:06:55Z] <kris_> like a lot a lot
[2025-12-25T05:07:00Z] <midfavila> it's literally just systemv
[2025-12-25T05:07:02Z] <kris_> so i figure i may yoink that and use it on kiss
[2025-12-25T05:07:10Z] <midfavila> slackware does the same shit
[2025-12-25T05:07:12Z] <kris_> okay then being more specific i like their service management
[2025-12-25T05:07:19Z] <midfavila> that's just systemv
[2025-12-25T05:07:19Z] <kris_> couldnt care less about how that's bootstrapped
[2025-12-25T05:07:27Z] <midfavila> you mean with the shell scripts and shit right?
[2025-12-25T05:07:29Z] <kris_> yes
[2025-12-25T05:07:36Z] <midfavila> yeah that's just the classic unix way of doing things
[2025-12-25T05:07:39Z] <midfavila> slackware does the same thing
[2025-12-25T05:07:43Z] <kris_> indeed it is and it's the correct way of doing things
[2025-12-25T05:07:44Z] <kris_> in my mind
[2025-12-25T05:07:48Z] <midfavila> yes, it is
[2025-12-25T05:07:53Z] <midfavila> it's why i refuse to use 'service managers'
[2025-12-25T05:07:57Z] <midfavila> services manage themselves
[2025-12-25T05:08:03Z] <kris_> runit is nice but im starting to think parallelizing service startup is a little goofy
[2025-12-25T05:08:08Z] <midfavila> it is
[2025-12-25T05:08:34Z] <midfavila> like maybe if you're some sort of internet backbone system and you have nine billion servers you need to spin up every boot 
[2025-12-25T05:08:37Z] <midfavila> then sure
[2025-12-25T05:08:44Z] <midfavila> but joe blow doesn't need that 
[2025-12-25T05:08:53Z] <midfavila> shoehorning it into desktop systems makes things objectively worse
[2025-12-25T05:09:03Z] <kris_> idk runit is right at that point where its like "yeah im happy using this"
[2025-12-25T05:09:09Z] <kris_> mostly just because i hate declarative services
[2025-12-25T05:09:15Z] <kris_> just launch a shell script it really is that simple
[2025-12-25T05:09:17Z] <midfavila> i just don't get the point of service managers
[2025-12-25T05:09:24Z] <kris_> no declarative service style will ever be as powerful as just >launching a shell script
[2025-12-25T05:09:31Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2025-12-25T05:09:31Z] <kris_> and itll never be as clear/explicit
[2025-12-25T05:09:38Z] <midfavila> like if i want to start shit on slackware it's just
[2025-12-25T05:09:52Z] <midfavila> /etc/rc.d/rc.[service_name] <start|stop|status>
[2025-12-25T05:10:19Z] <midfavila> and if i want that service to start in a given runlevel i just add it to either inittab or rc.[service_level]
[2025-12-25T05:10:20Z] <kris_> yeah im just not a big fan of how slackware does things in general
[2025-12-25T05:10:27Z] <midfavila> why tho
[2025-12-25T05:10:29Z] <midfavila> it's peak
[2025-12-25T05:10:35Z] <kris_> i'm just not a slacker mid
[2025-12-25T05:10:41Z] <midfavila> clearly not
[2025-12-25T05:10:47Z] <midfavila> consult dobbs
[2025-12-25T05:10:48Z] <midfavila> immediately
[2025-12-25T05:10:51Z] <kris_> i install slackware and there's fucking 50,000 different things installed by default and it tries to deploy fucking >lilo
[2025-12-25T05:10:55Z] <kris_> and im kinda just like okay
[2025-12-25T05:11:00Z] <midfavila> lilo is fine
[2025-12-25T05:11:03Z] <midfavila> convince me it isn't
[2025-12-25T05:11:05Z] <midfavila> right now
[2025-12-25T05:11:10Z] <kris_> i'd have to do a manual install of slackware 
[2025-12-25T05:11:13Z] <kris_> i may do that at some point
[2025-12-25T05:11:19Z] <midfavila> just don't
[2025-12-25T05:11:20Z] <kris_> i'm not giving up my UKI setup
[2025-12-25T05:11:23Z] <midfavila> install slackware on the whole
[2025-12-25T05:11:28Z] <midfavila> that's how it's designed
[2025-12-25T05:11:42Z] <kris_> yeah and therefore it isnt really my thing
[2025-12-25T05:11:46Z] <kris_> i like to nitpick
[2025-12-25T05:11:58Z] <midfavila> see this is what i don't get
[2025-12-25T05:12:06Z] <midfavila> you like to nitpick but kiss is too much nitpicking 
[2025-12-25T05:12:11Z] <midfavila> le why
[2025-12-25T05:12:18Z] <kris_> the answer to that is simple
[2025-12-25T05:12:41Z] <kris_> on void when you install a package you get its entire, full functionality- nothing is disabled with compile time options unless it's telemetry
[2025-12-25T05:12:57Z] <kris_> i solve the question of using a bloated system by using less shit software
[2025-12-25T05:13:03Z] <kris_> not by disabling a ton of stuff *on the shit software*
[2025-12-25T05:13:19Z] <midfavila> okay but that's kiss tho
[2025-12-25T05:13:22Z] <kris_> like void is outright not minimal
[2025-12-25T05:13:24Z] <kris_> at all
[2025-12-25T05:13:38Z] <kris_> its packaging setup just happens to be such that i can get rid of *most* things
[2025-12-25T05:13:53Z] <kris_> i think the alpine approach to this is pretty sane too
[2025-12-25T05:14:05Z] <kris_> super split up packages and i dont have to deal with actually modifying package templates and shit
[2025-12-25T05:14:11Z] <midfavila> i hate split packages
[2025-12-25T05:14:13Z] <midfavila> they fucking suck
[2025-12-25T05:14:13Z] <kris_> as much as i dont like alpine for other reasons
[2025-12-25T05:14:23Z] <kris_> like let me toss you a direct example of what i'm talking about
[2025-12-25T05:14:26Z] <kris_> on void, i could just install 'qemu'
[2025-12-25T05:14:36Z] <kris_> but i don't because i dont need fucking everything
[2025-12-25T05:14:41Z] <midfavila> the .00000000000000000000002 bytes of extra space used by headers doesn't mean shit
[2025-12-25T05:14:42Z] <kris_> i just install 'qemu-system-amd64'
[2025-12-25T05:14:54Z] <midfavila> okay but you can just do that on kiss.
[2025-12-25T05:15:08Z] <kris_> with an insane amount of effort comparatively yeah
[2025-12-25T05:15:15Z] <midfavila> i mean that's what packaging is
[2025-12-25T05:15:23Z] <kris_> indeed it is and i only maintain a handful of things for void
[2025-12-25T05:15:30Z] <kris_> the only thing actually in the void repo i maintain is blocky
[2025-12-25T05:15:34Z] <midfavila> i guess if the point is that you don't want to package stuff at all then sure fair enough
[2025-12-25T05:15:51Z] <midfavila> but it really isn't that bad
[2025-12-25T05:15:52Z] <kris_> the idea is that we, as a community, have all kind of reached a consensus on what is "good enough"
[2025-12-25T05:15:57Z] <kris_> there's not "fork the repo and do it all yourself"
[2025-12-25T05:16:09Z] <midfavila> ...that's not the usual for kiss either?
[2025-12-25T05:16:15Z] <kris_> no but it would be required
[2025-12-25T05:16:19Z] <midfavila> what?
[2025-12-25T05:16:23Z] <midfavila> what are you on about
[2025-12-25T05:16:29Z] <midfavila> you just fork the one package 
[2025-12-25T05:16:31Z] <kris_> most of my time testing kiss was spent "oh i need XYZ enabled on X package" "oh that needs X to be packaged" "oh i have to enable XYZ over here to do that"
[2025-12-25T05:16:39Z] <kris_> rinse and repeat down the chain tons of times
[2025-12-25T05:16:53Z] <kris_> like i'm not complaining about it
[2025-12-25T05:17:04Z] <kris_> all im saying is that it's a lot of work and i put like a week into trying to get a usable system out of it when i had free time to spare
[2025-12-25T05:17:09Z] <kris_> at some point i'll pick up back where i left off
[2025-12-25T05:17:37Z] <kris_> there's only really a handful of things left
[2025-12-25T05:17:54Z] <kris_> libvirtd, virt-manager, elogind, basically just the various redhatisms i need/want
[2025-12-25T05:19:02Z] <kris_> and honestly as far as the kernel goes i ended up just pulling the config from void and building that to save time there
[2025-12-25T05:19:17Z] <kris_> i get to do that because a full fat bloated as fuck void kernel takes maybe 8 minutes to compile on my system
[2025-12-25T05:20:13Z] <kris_> also midfavila maybe dumb as hell question but does the kiss package manager have a mechanism for preferring one repo over another
[2025-12-25T05:20:32Z] <midfavila> put the repo you want to prioritise first in your KISS_PATH variable
[2025-12-25T05:21:01Z] <midfavila> so if you have a package foo and two repos provide the package foo, repA and repB, and you want repB's foo, then you would put repB first
[2025-12-25T05:21:04Z] <midfavila> also
[2025-12-25T05:21:11Z] <midfavila> you can just cd into a package directory and 'kiss b' 
[2025-12-25T05:21:17Z] <midfavila> and it will build from the current directory
[2025-12-25T05:22:07Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2025-12-25T05:22:08Z] <midfavila> you know
[2025-12-25T05:22:17Z] <midfavila> philbush on github has a lot of framebuffer software
[2025-12-25T05:22:28Z] <midfavila> i have to wonder how viable integrating something like twin would be with, say, fbpad
[2025-12-25T05:22:35Z] <midfavila> which is a framebuffer terminal
[2025-12-25T05:22:48Z] <midfavila> i know that links2 has a framebuffer mode that can use gpm and renders inline graphics
[2025-12-25T05:23:08Z] <kris_> well that makes a lot more god damn sense
[2025-12-25T05:23:20Z] <kris_> i dont know why changing the order of those never crossed my mind
[2025-12-25T05:23:27Z] <kris_> sometimes i am dumbo
[2025-12-25T05:23:33Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2025-12-25T05:23:36Z] <midfavila> drink more tea
[2025-12-25T05:23:50Z] <midfavila> hydrate your b r a i n
[2025-12-25T05:24:03Z] <kris_> i am drink a barqs rootbeer
[2025-12-25T05:24:23Z] <midfavila> ugh i'm still caught up on that qmk shit tho
[2025-12-25T05:24:29Z] <midfavila> like what the hell is up with that
[2025-12-25T05:24:49Z] <midfavila> let me choose my device from a dropdown menu, configure it, and then compile some firmware for it and let me download it and push it to the device locally
[2025-12-25T05:25:05Z] <midfavila> don't make me *give a website* access to my keyboard's chipset 
[2025-12-25T05:27:41Z] <kris_> yeah it's fucking insanw
[2025-12-25T05:27:47Z] <kris_> idek if theres a sane solution for that
[2025-12-25T05:28:00Z] <midfavila> like i can't even download an appimage or flatpak for that i don't think 
[2025-12-25T05:28:05Z] <midfavila> i would have to run it locally 
[2025-12-25T05:28:21Z] <kris_> uh
[2025-12-25T05:28:30Z] <kris_> you can probably use a flatpak if you breach the sandbox
[2025-12-25T05:28:36Z] <kris_> if you want
[2025-12-25T05:29:15Z] <midfavila> i just want a command line utility for this...
[2025-12-25T05:29:22Z] <midfavila> there's no reason to use a browser for it
[2025-12-25T05:29:28Z] <midfavila> a simple DSL could do everything 
[2025-12-25T05:30:42Z] <midfavila> oh classic the qmk website suggests you just pipe a shellscript in order to install stuff
[2025-12-25T05:30:48Z] <midfavila> can't just provide a tarball
[2025-12-25T05:32:22Z] <midfavila> maybe this is a project i can tack on the list
[2025-12-25T05:33:05Z] <midfavila> to be completely honest with you kris_ one of the main reasons i'm still unsure about uni is because i feel like it's just going to be four years of shitting out javascript
[2025-12-25T05:33:12Z] <midfavila> i wouldn't be able to handle that
[2025-12-25T05:33:17Z] <kris_> i doubt it
[2025-12-25T05:33:34Z] <kris_> mine was going to be mostly java, C, C++, assembly
[2025-12-25T05:33:45Z] <kris_> i switched to IT from comp sci though
[2025-12-25T05:34:11Z] <midfavila> there's only one webdev course in the three/four year curriculum but i can't help but worry
[2025-12-25T05:34:18Z] <kris_> java is like the base standard 
[2025-12-25T05:34:20Z] <midfavila> that and the trend of professors and students both using llms for shit now
[2025-12-25T05:34:23Z] <kris_> like you WILL be doing java
[2025-12-25T05:34:29Z] <midfavila> gross
[2025-12-25T05:34:44Z] <kris_> if your school is cool they may replace it with cpp
[2025-12-25T05:34:50Z] <kris_> but idk i don't mind java
[2025-12-25T05:35:26Z] <kris_> what you should probably be worried about is them getting pissy over the software you use to complete the task
[2025-12-25T05:35:39Z] <kris_> my prof wanted me to use eclips and i was like what the fuck absolutely not
[2025-12-25T05:35:41Z] <midfavila> yeah well fuck off
[2025-12-25T05:35:44Z] <midfavila> i'm using emacs and ed
[2025-12-25T05:35:50Z] <kris_> hell yeah
[2025-12-25T05:36:02Z] <kris_> for the moment im stuck with vis, i shouldn't have tried this
[2025-12-25T05:36:09Z] <midfavila> i used kiss throughout college and it was literally fine
[2025-12-25T05:36:14Z] <kris_> because now I've become hooked on the whole SAM regex shit
[2025-12-25T05:36:23Z] <kris_> and everything else feels like shit
[2025-12-25T05:36:25Z] <midfavila> structural regex is cool
[2025-12-25T05:36:46Z] <midfavila> see regex is just infinitely better than punching at your little fuckin keyboard for twenty minutes 
[2025-12-25T05:36:56Z] <midfavila> even in emacs i mostly just use regex 
[2025-12-25T05:38:52Z] <midfavila> honestly i just hate computers now
[2025-12-25T05:38:53Z] <kris_> idk im glad to not be dealing with emacs anymore
[2025-12-25T05:38:54Z] <midfavila> it's not fun
[2025-12-25T05:39:09Z] <kris_> doom emacs is incredible but vanilla emacs really sincerely piseed me off
[2025-12-25T05:39:15Z] <midfavila> y
[2025-12-25T05:39:27Z] <kris_> i cant really like
[2025-12-25T05:39:58Z] <kris_> basically, it has come to my attention that emacs wants to have a style of indentation for every language on the planet
[2025-12-25T05:40:06Z] <midfavila> just change it
[2025-12-25T05:40:09Z] <midfavila> or disable it
[2025-12-25T05:40:13Z] <kris_> i wont accept tab characters fucking ever
[2025-12-25T05:40:15Z] <kris_> dude i tried
[2025-12-25T05:40:25Z] <kris_> i must just have had a skill issue but i couldnt get it to behave
[2025-12-25T05:40:37Z] <midfavila> i mean to be fair emacs is incredibly opaque and obtuse
[2025-12-25T05:41:18Z] <midfavila> i read an entire printed manual and still had trouble just finding the variables and setting them appropriately because everything has its own particular idiosyncracies depending on when it was implemented
[2025-12-25T05:41:36Z] <midfavila> idiosyncrasies even
[2025-12-25T05:41:54Z] <kris_> yeah its ass man im sorry
[2025-12-25T05:41:55Z] <midfavila> it's why i prefer emacs implementations in scheme 
[2025-12-25T05:42:01Z] <midfavila> yeah no don't get me wrong
[2025-12-25T05:42:05Z] <midfavila> gnu emacs is a dumpsterfire
[2025-12-25T05:42:27Z] <kris_> doom emacs made it almost perfect though
[2025-12-25T05:42:27Z] <midfavila> they've got like fifty years of accreted cruft 
[2025-12-25T05:43:27Z] <kris_> the issue with doom emacs is honestly primarily having to deal with changing things 
[2025-12-25T05:43:41Z] <kris_> its like poking at a black box to figure out what someone else has put in there
[2025-12-25T05:43:46Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2025-12-25T05:43:51Z] <kris_> which is why i wanted to do a manual config
[2025-12-25T05:43:53Z] <midfavila> that's why i wrote my own config
[2025-12-25T05:44:01Z] <midfavila> it's like a thousand lines and total garbage lol
[2025-12-25T05:44:01Z] <kris_> at which point i realized WOW
[2025-12-25T05:44:06Z] <kris_> emacs is dong
[2025-12-25T05:44:08Z] <midfavila> "wow emacs is shit!"
[2025-12-25T05:44:10Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2025-12-25T05:44:20Z] <midfavila> i mean trvth nvke though
[2025-12-25T05:44:37Z] <kris_> my vis config atm is maybe like 30 lines total
[2025-12-25T05:45:14Z] <kris_> sorry, 58
[2025-12-25T05:45:17Z] <kris_> 59*
[2025-12-25T05:45:20Z] <kris_> https://github.com/kkrruumm/dotfiles/blob/main/vis/visrc.lua
[2025-12-25T09:16:38Z] <sad_plan> happy christmas phoebos.
[2025-12-25T13:34:05Z] <midfavila> you know, thinking i might cancel that beamspring order
[2025-12-25T13:34:20Z] <midfavila> apparently some people have been waiting for almost half a decade
[2025-12-25T13:34:35Z] <midfavila> one guy from the GDR said he spent less time waiting to get his trebant (state-manufactured sedan)
[2025-12-25T13:35:07Z] <midfavila> that money could go towards an almost equally nice keyboard group buy, plus a *second* keyboard that i could get rn
[2025-12-25T13:38:29Z] <midfavila> the boston 120% seems like a decent keyboard for *right* now, and the other option is the '21xx' kit
[2025-12-25T13:50:07Z] <midfavila> kailh thick box navies look nice
[2025-12-25T13:50:15Z] <midfavila> 75 +- 20gf for actuation 
[2025-12-25T13:50:29Z] <midfavila> nice loud ping
[2025-12-25T13:50:34Z] <midfavila> sharp tactile bump
[2025-12-25T14:34:14Z] <cot> phoebos, right here always have been
[2025-12-25T14:34:18Z] <cot> still look over chat once in a whiel
[2025-12-25T14:34:48Z] <cot> this works: /msg ChanServ op #kisslinux
[2025-12-25T14:35:05Z] <cot> And then setting +R for the channel during spam waves
[2025-12-25T14:39:29Z] <cot> For auto op I think that's a client setting. I've forgotten if there's another way
[2025-12-25T17:03:31Z] <kris_> midfavila: build keyboard
[2025-12-25T23:38:19Z] <midfavila> kris_: you gotta help me i'm a basic bitch and only have experience with springs
[2025-12-25T23:40:13Z] <phoebos> cot: o/
[2025-12-25T23:40:44Z] <phoebos> but I think msg chanserv op is temporary and you can only do it to yourself if you have the +o flag
[2025-12-25T23:40:59Z] <phoebos> auto op is +O
[2025-12-25T23:41:20Z] <phoebos> I can op but I can't set +o
[2025-12-25T23:41:49Z] <phoebos> anyway
[2025-12-25T23:41:58Z] <phoebos> season's greetings, #kisslinux