[2026-01-10T03:09:59Z] aight I think I finally got podman decently packaged up [2026-01-10T03:10:59Z] wasn't *that* painful and weirdely enough the most annoying thing was podman itself, most dependencies were absurdly light (I mean that's kinda the point) [2026-01-10T03:11:25Z] I noted everything down, I'll definitely put a note on my website [2026-01-10T03:12:52Z] https://www.ebay.com/itm/146184239532 [2026-01-10T03:12:55Z] i am very tempted to get this [2026-01-10T03:13:09Z] throw void on it and use it as my dns proxy box to cut down on power usage and repurpose my other thin client that is WAY overkill for that task [2026-01-10T03:13:37Z] like 1/4th the price of a pi 5 so [2026-01-10T03:13:45Z] though 8gb emmc is like pushing it [2026-01-10T03:13:49Z] 16gb would be comfy [2026-01-10T03:14:47Z] uhhh prettyyy [2026-01-10T03:15:16Z] I love thin clients, they're basically SBCs but without the mess of embedded stuff [2026-01-10T03:15:25Z] i currently have 2 [2026-01-10T03:15:29Z] nice [2026-01-10T03:15:36Z] I have one too, planning to use it as the bouncer [2026-01-10T03:15:37Z] one is an HP T740, my router, and the other one is a dell optiplex 3040 micro with an i5 6500t [2026-01-10T03:15:43Z] I need to wait for the new router tho [2026-01-10T03:15:47Z] should be coming in a few days [2026-01-10T03:15:52Z] the 6500t one is just hosting blocky and nothing else so it's kinda completely going to waste [2026-01-10T03:15:57Z] ohhh nice so you used a thing client as a router [2026-01-10T03:16:01Z] thin* [2026-01-10T03:16:10Z] wait how you handling multiple NICs [2026-01-10T03:16:12Z] are you doing a router on a stick [2026-01-10T03:16:16Z] yeah, it was $90 brand new, $20 for a dual 10 gig intel x540-t2 nic [2026-01-10T03:16:21Z] it has a pcie slot [2026-01-10T03:16:23Z] oh [2026-01-10T03:16:24Z] low profile one [2026-01-10T03:16:29Z] mpcie kinda thing? [2026-01-10T03:16:33Z] no its an actual pcie slot [2026-01-10T03:16:37Z] oh that's cool [2026-01-10T03:16:40Z] do you have a pic perhaps [2026-01-10T03:16:45Z] oh wait you told the model [2026-01-10T03:16:46Z] its not a 1 liter t740 but it's not large either [2026-01-10T03:17:01Z] 1 liter thin client* [2026-01-10T03:17:13Z] oh wow I'm suprised that they managed to do that in that space [2026-01-10T03:17:15Z] https://www.storagereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/StorageReview-HP-t740-Ports3.jpg [2026-01-10T03:17:22Z] it's CRAMPED [2026-01-10T03:17:24Z] yeah [2026-01-10T03:17:34Z] its super overkill for a router but it works well [2026-01-10T03:17:37Z] man this is peak computing imo [2026-01-10T03:17:43Z] some 4c8t first gen ryzen embedded [2026-01-10T03:17:45Z] oh [2026-01-10T03:17:45Z] 8gb of wams [2026-01-10T03:17:48Z] 64gb ssd [2026-01-10T03:17:51Z] has two nvme slots [2026-01-10T03:17:52Z] I was going to say "ehh" but holy crap 8 threads [2026-01-10T03:18:08Z] it also hosts my vpn so its not entirely going to waste [2026-01-10T03:18:09Z] that thing might unironically be faster or almost on par of my old laptop [2026-01-10T03:18:24Z] i put ptm7950 on it and it's dead silent [2026-01-10T03:18:28Z] it was kinda loud until i did that [2026-01-10T03:19:13Z] can't imagine it being that loud [2026-01-10T03:19:29Z] my current server is terribly noisy lol [2026-01-10T03:19:32Z] audible = loud [2026-01-10T03:19:33Z] to me [2026-01-10T03:19:41Z] lmao you've no idea what's going on in my room [2026-01-10T03:19:43Z] I sleep with that thing [2026-01-10T03:19:55Z] old, OLD ass fan constantly spinning and three HDDs [2026-01-10T03:20:15Z] and for some unthinkable reason whenever the archiveteam warrior goes hard, it wakes up one disk constantly [2026-01-10T03:20:16Z] it goes BEEP [2026-01-10T03:20:24Z] the only tech thingy in my room i can hear is the shitty toshiba n300 on my desktop that i plugged back in the other day to store recordings on [2026-01-10T03:20:38Z] i have a ton of computers running in here at the moment [2026-01-10T03:20:54Z] as it should be [2026-01-10T03:21:29Z] two thin clients, a consumer router, my desktop, my big server [2026-01-10T03:21:35Z] a raspberry pi 3b+ that currently isnt doing anything [2026-01-10T03:21:52Z] I actually found it kinda hard to use "traditional" SBCs [2026-01-10T03:21:53Z] i have a few pi 3s but they're too slow to be useful for anything [2026-01-10T03:22:00Z] I have two lying around but really not sure what to do with them [2026-01-10T03:22:16Z] my favourite stuff to play with is laptop boards [2026-01-10T03:22:16Z] at some point once i finish my script im just going to have my pi 3b+ sit here and run a snooze script to update my IP address on cloudflare [2026-01-10T03:22:23Z] so if my IP changes i dont get kicked out of my vpn [2026-01-10T03:22:27Z] long term anyway [2026-01-10T03:22:27Z] you can get broken laptops for nothing, even less than most thin clients I think [2026-01-10T03:22:44Z] ya you could grab one and have a case 3d printed for it for like nothing and gg [2026-01-10T03:22:58Z] man there are a few things i really want to buy right now but i know i shouldn't [2026-01-10T03:23:00Z] so uh do you currently risk it, with the IP think [2026-01-10T03:23:01Z] thing* [2026-01-10T03:23:16Z] ye [2026-01-10T03:23:17Z] BTW I looked at that thin client and it costs way too much for my tastes [2026-01-10T03:23:23Z] I can only assume that it became popular online or something [2026-01-10T03:23:30Z] the t740? [2026-01-10T03:23:31Z] how much did ya pay it [2026-01-10T03:23:32Z] yea [2026-01-10T03:23:35Z] $90 brand new [2026-01-10T03:23:51Z] and yeah its very popular because its the only really sensible thin client for router use [2026-01-10T03:24:08Z] yea I can't find it at that price, considering shipping and all [2026-01-10T03:24:14Z] altho I'm in europe so that might change things [2026-01-10T03:24:21Z] theres a fujitsu one that will work since youre in europe [2026-01-10T03:24:26Z] its substantially shittier but hold on [2026-01-10T03:24:28Z] i couldnt find any in the US [2026-01-10T03:24:42Z] https://www.ebay.it/itm/286994018296 ffs [2026-01-10T03:24:42Z] fujitsu S920 [2026-01-10T03:24:50Z] i saw a bunch in germany when i was looking around [2026-01-10T03:24:52Z] but zero here [2026-01-10T03:25:28Z] that looks slightly better [2026-01-10T03:25:35Z] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAxe2pAUY50 [2026-01-10T03:25:38Z] wolfgang did a video on it [2026-01-10T03:26:13Z] yea I guess the only real way to get cheap thin clients is just to go to a thrift store or something [2026-01-10T03:26:18Z] or maybe look for less famous models [2026-01-10T03:26:21Z] well [2026-01-10T03:26:30Z] if you're not looking for one to use as a router there are a ton of options [2026-01-10T03:26:33Z] oof it definitely wasn't worth 50 euros in my searches [2026-01-10T03:26:44Z] oh yea I don't need one right now, I already ordered the openwrt one [2026-01-10T03:26:50Z] oh right [2026-01-10T03:26:54Z] don't they ship those from aliexpress [2026-01-10T03:27:09Z] yeaaa but apparently there's this official joom thing which was slightly cheaper [2026-01-10T03:27:18Z] and everything rised the day after I ordered it due to the ram stuff [2026-01-10T03:27:31Z] aliexpress sketches me out honestly [2026-01-10T03:27:34Z] ehhhh [2026-01-10T03:27:36Z] theres something i kinda wanna get that is half price on ali [2026-01-10T03:27:40Z] bananapi is chinese [2026-01-10T03:27:40Z] and im considering it [2026-01-10T03:27:42Z] so it's fine really [2026-01-10T03:27:47Z] ohhh that's another story [2026-01-10T03:27:51Z] depends on what it is [2026-01-10T03:28:13Z] https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808203464451.html [2026-01-10T03:28:23Z] like, AFAICT many chinese sellers have official stores on ali because... it's local? Like, they do alibaba already so it changes nothing to them ig [2026-01-10T03:28:38Z] yeah as far as i gather this is the official KZ store [2026-01-10T03:29:09Z] why r u two buying ur server racks on redbubble [2026-01-10T03:29:15Z] eva is that you [2026-01-10T03:30:45Z] soz i was overdue a visit to heaven [2026-01-10T03:30:47Z] how have u been dery [2026-01-10T03:30:55Z] hiii [2026-01-10T03:30:59Z] life is going [2026-01-10T03:31:21Z] btw kris_ looks like there are a few clone websites but according to a random post on reddit (lol) this might be the real website https://kz-audio.com/ [2026-01-10T03:31:29Z] and this is the shop https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1358152/pages/all-items.html [2026-01-10T03:32:05Z] this is actually interestingly cheap [2026-01-10T03:32:18Z] like, it's actually getting hard to find cheap wired earbuds *at all* [2026-01-10T03:32:28Z] so, bad or not, I might actually take a look at the cheaper ones [2026-01-10T03:32:32Z] nah you're just looking in the wrong places [2026-01-10T03:32:36Z] uhhh [2026-01-10T03:32:37Z] amazon :P [2026-01-10T03:32:40Z] you can get good IEMs for $20-25 [2026-01-10T03:32:44Z] like proper good ones [2026-01-10T03:32:50Z] I don't care about iems themselves [2026-01-10T03:32:55Z] https://www.amazon.com/Linsoul-Kiwi-Ears-Cadenza-Interchangeable/dp/B0BKT8GBK4?s=electronics&th=1 [2026-01-10T03:32:57Z] just actual wired in ear jobbies [2026-01-10T03:32:57Z] im looking at these atm [2026-01-10T03:33:03Z] they're also on aliexpress [2026-01-10T03:33:07Z] that's wayyy out of my price range :P [2026-01-10T03:33:20Z] I pay consistenly like... less than 10 euros [2026-01-10T03:33:28Z] buy nice or buy twice [2026-01-10T03:33:28Z] and that's expensive to me [2026-01-10T03:33:40Z] in the meantime my cheap jbl things are still going strong more than a year later [2026-01-10T03:33:51Z] the only times I had to change them was cause I lost them, fr [2026-01-10T03:33:53Z] https://www.amazon.com/Stellar-Earphones-Isolating-Monitors-Compatible/dp/B0B1CX6F4H?s=electronics [2026-01-10T03:33:53Z] never had them break [2026-01-10T03:33:54Z] ? [2026-01-10T03:33:57Z] and I spent like 6 euros [2026-01-10T03:34:05Z] too plasticky :P [2026-01-10T03:34:11Z] also I need the rubber thingy [2026-01-10T03:34:54Z] man does my amazon search look fucked up [2026-01-10T03:35:12Z] either plasticky in ear things or usbc stuff [2026-01-10T03:35:25Z] normie buds are no longer an option, everybody went to wireless [2026-01-10T03:35:37Z] i think you should just save up like 20 euros and get something real [2026-01-10T03:35:45Z] https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Yinyoo-Cancelling-Earphone-Removable/dp/B089Y7M1CZ?s=electronics [2026-01-10T03:35:48Z] i had these in the past [2026-01-10T03:35:49Z] solid [2026-01-10T03:36:02Z] also btw the listing you linked before was legit indeed apparently [2026-01-10T03:36:05Z] just double-checked the link [2026-01-10T03:36:19Z] I will consider them whenever my current cheap pair of earbuds breaks [2026-01-10T03:36:26Z] listen man i'm an american [2026-01-10T03:36:31Z] we get suspicious with chinese stuff [2026-01-10T03:36:46Z] I mean aliexpress is full of scam listings [2026-01-10T03:36:49Z] on a serious note though i'm just not ecstatic about the month long shipping [2026-01-10T03:36:51Z] and yes it is [2026-01-10T03:36:55Z] it's not a month long anymore [2026-01-10T03:37:13Z] actually I find the current joom shipping SLOW but it also had the holidays and stuff [2026-01-10T03:37:30Z] you can usually get stuff from ali in like, 7 working days [2026-01-10T03:37:37Z] not in the united states [2026-01-10T03:37:41Z] bruh [2026-01-10T03:37:42Z] its around 2.5 weeks to a month [2026-01-10T03:37:43Z] why? [2026-01-10T03:37:55Z] dunno [2026-01-10T03:38:04Z] big distance i guess [2026-01-10T03:38:08Z] wait [2026-01-10T03:38:11Z] isn't it like, closer to you than us [2026-01-10T03:38:12Z] you can go to europe from china on land [2026-01-10T03:38:23Z] yea but I'm in italy [2026-01-10T03:38:25Z] kris u make me laugh so hard [2026-01-10T03:38:33Z] eva!!!!!!!! [2026-01-10T03:38:50Z] i might just pay double the price and get this on amazon [2026-01-10T03:38:54Z] im eternally grateful for u [2026-01-10T03:38:56Z] hurts though [2026-01-10T03:39:01Z] welp kris on ali it says that it will come jan 19-26 [2026-01-10T03:39:10Z] to usa [2026-01-10T03:39:17Z] and not making me feel like I’m bad or something to be forgotten [2026-01-10T03:39:29Z] but what the hell does 'u can go to europe from china on land' mean HAHA [2026-01-10T03:39:34Z] u just say stuff [2026-01-10T03:39:36Z] stupid silly [2026-01-10T03:39:45Z] you can just walk over there [2026-01-10T03:39:50Z] okay?? [2026-01-10T03:39:52Z] well technically yea? [2026-01-10T03:39:55Z] but it's sooo far away [2026-01-10T03:40:07Z] if i have my sketchers on i could probably do it in half an hour [2026-01-10T03:40:13Z] no for sure [2026-01-10T03:40:19Z] its a twenty-minute jog [2026-01-10T03:40:31Z] there are actually regulations around me when i have my sketchers equipped [2026-01-10T03:40:43Z] its a federal law that everyone must maintain at minimum a 30 foot distance from me [2026-01-10T03:40:48Z] because i am Dangerous when i have my sketchers [2026-01-10T03:41:03Z] Dangerous [2026-01-10T03:42:13Z] welp, I'm satisfied for today [2026-01-10T03:42:16Z] finally got podman working [2026-01-10T03:42:33Z] now I can finally build decently-compatible builds of godot without dying [2026-01-10T03:42:51Z] have you used godot before [2026-01-10T03:42:57Z] I'm a maintainer [2026-01-10T03:43:05Z] *Technically* yes [2026-01-10T03:43:11Z] wild [2026-01-10T03:43:12Z] in practice I did a few games, too little time for that :P [2026-01-10T03:43:17Z] small games I should add [2026-01-10T03:43:30Z] actually my biggest project was a client for rocketchat [2026-01-10T03:43:36Z] lol [2026-01-10T03:44:24Z] that's actually why I care of having reliable way of building godot for "normal" distros, I need to test the damn thing on a crapload of wayland compositors [2026-01-10T03:44:25Z] godot didnt really stick for me [2026-01-10T03:44:40Z] that's fine [2026-01-10T03:44:48Z] i may need to try it out again though [2026-01-10T03:45:01Z] ive been having qualms with game engines for years at this point, love2d may be too minimal for me to really get anything done with it [2026-01-10T03:45:14Z] it's definitely in the category of "ready-to-use game toolkits" like unity and unreal [2026-01-10T03:45:46Z] well if that soothes you I can tell you that godot is ridicolously small for what it does [2026-01-10T03:45:53Z] nah it wasnt that [2026-01-10T03:46:04Z] like, IIRC it's around 100mb for the whole editor, docs and localizations included [2026-01-10T03:46:08Z] in a single executable [2026-01-10T03:46:10Z] i just have quite the preference for lua compared to anything godot has [2026-01-10T03:46:22Z] mh [2026-01-10T03:46:26Z] well you could look for a lua binding [2026-01-10T03:46:40Z] this one looks fairly complete https://github.com/gilzoide/lua-gdextension [2026-01-10T03:47:05Z] it's also available in the asset library, so you just look it from there and click install :D [2026-01-10T03:47:36Z] whoever packaged godot for flatpak is wild [2026-01-10T03:47:44Z] why? [2026-01-10T03:47:52Z] full filesystem r/w [2026-01-10T03:48:04Z] well yea we don't have actual portal integration yet [2026-01-10T03:48:11Z] maintainer and social media manager [2026-01-10T03:48:15Z] same thing for blender actually [2026-01-10T03:48:18Z] i want it and idrk what it is or what it does [2026-01-10T03:48:28Z] what does that mean [2026-01-10T03:48:36Z] ur rly selling it right now [2026-01-10T03:48:46Z] oh lmao [2026-01-10T03:48:55Z] it wasn't my intention, we're on kisslinux after all, I don't really judge :P [2026-01-10T03:49:26Z] hey has anyone tried glasnost? [2026-01-10T03:49:32Z] there's a lot of other cool stuff too [2026-01-10T03:49:38Z] the kiss fork? pressure [2026-01-10T03:49:43Z] ye [2026-01-10T03:49:52Z] dery: nah i didnt get the vibes you were trying to sell me anything lol [2026-01-10T03:50:03Z] love2d is just a bit too far in one direction for me [2026-01-10T03:50:05Z] pressure: I'm pretty sure they stopped updated it [2026-01-10T03:50:11Z] like i have to handle collision logic and everything manually [2026-01-10T03:50:18Z] as opposed to just.. adding a collider box like i would in an actual engine [2026-01-10T03:50:29Z] its just a lot of time spent on things that arent actually making gaem [2026-01-10T03:50:32Z] genuine questions, aren't there any frameworks on top of love2d? [2026-01-10T03:50:38Z] there may be idk [2026-01-10T03:50:52Z] From what I *heard* I don't feel like it's really meant to be used directly, for quick prototyping and stuff [2026-01-10T03:50:54Z] dery: oh [2026-01-10T03:51:02Z] (heard as in, hearing other people's experiences) [2026-01-10T03:51:08Z] amulet.xyz is very overlooked [2026-01-10T03:51:09Z] its pretty minimal [2026-01-10T03:51:19Z] you kinda have just like 3 primary functions and the rest is up to you [2026-01-10T03:51:22Z] love.update, love.draw, love.load [2026-01-10T03:51:36Z] yea that's why I think it's more of a nice base to build stuff on than a complete tool by itself, which is completely fair [2026-01-10T03:52:02Z] its awesome, its just very involved [2026-01-10T03:52:04Z] i made pong the other day [2026-01-10T03:52:31Z] nice [2026-01-10T03:52:59Z] btw I actually plan to take a look at the flatpak situation once the Wayland backend is stable [2026-01-10T03:53:03Z] more or less im trying to work myself up to being able to make things that are kinda rpgmaker-coded [2026-01-10T03:53:18Z] like the old rpgmaker horror games like corpse party / ib / mad father [2026-01-10T03:53:22Z] if you're familiar with what im talking about [2026-01-10T03:53:25Z] yea [2026-01-10T03:53:46Z] oh balatro is made in love2d [2026-01-10T03:53:47Z] always forget that [2026-01-10T03:53:49Z] that's nice [2026-01-10T03:53:50Z] I like to think of the difference as like, "game engine", vs "game toolkit" or such, engine's big and complicated, but lets you get a thing fast, toolkit's nice for tinkering, but way slower to build things from scratch [2026-01-10T03:54:08Z] yeah love2d isnt an engine its just a framework [2026-01-10T03:54:11Z] indeed jinn6 [2026-01-10T03:54:29Z] idk its really not that bad to get some basic stuff working but more complex stuff is going to be a nightmare [2026-01-10T03:54:32Z] I prefer the lightweight stuff, heh [2026-01-10T03:54:32Z] I think of a game toolkit more of like a base to make your own actual engine on top, like, the set of primitives useful for your game [2026-01-10T03:54:34Z] pong on its own was kind of a nightmare [2026-01-10T03:54:49Z] dery: raylib! ;P [2026-01-10T03:55:12Z] i really considered writing my game in go [2026-01-10T03:55:20Z] godot is optimized hard for prototyping quick and dirty stuff as fast as possible: custom dynamically typed language, hot reload, live debugging and stuff [2026-01-10T03:55:20Z] also somewhat similar to godot: defold is also rather overlooked usually [2026-01-10T03:55:47Z] ah also theres the whole thing with love2d not having an editor at all you just launch a text editor and start writing lua [2026-01-10T03:55:58Z] that's the main thing that pushed me towards it [2026-01-10T03:56:08Z] the more i get to just stay inside of emacs and not touch an engine the better [2026-01-10T03:56:16Z] welp jinn6 just gave a look and apparently defold is not completely libre anymore [2026-01-10T03:56:25Z] you can do that with most things, tbh, kris_ [2026-01-10T03:56:38Z] you don't HAVE to use godot or unity editors for writing stuff [2026-01-10T03:56:49Z] wait it's not libre at all. It's technically usable for your purposes with exported games and such but you can't sell the engine by itself, like, as an editor [2026-01-10T03:56:54Z] i suppose but godot kinda demands you use its UI [2026-01-10T03:57:03Z] ehhh I'd recommend building scenes graphically [2026-01-10T03:57:04Z] not necessarily for the coding bits but just in general [2026-01-10T03:57:16Z] at the very least you could instantiate stuff from code but even then... [2026-01-10T03:57:23Z] dery: they did have a minor license change, yes, which I don't see as an issue, I actually see it as a good thing, lol [2026-01-10T03:57:24Z] I don't think I'd recommend writing text scenes from hand [2026-01-10T03:57:32Z] jinn6: you know it's a matter of principle [2026-01-10T03:57:33Z] with love i was honestly planning on just drawing the entire map all at once and setting it as the background [2026-01-10T03:57:39Z] and then doing collisions based on coordinates on a map that doesn't move [2026-01-10T03:57:51Z] its a fucking mess [2026-01-10T03:57:54Z] I mean at least scenes prefer text by default, with an actually sane serialization policy [2026-01-10T03:57:56Z] unlike unity [2026-01-10T03:57:58Z] once i realized this was probably the simplest way to do this i was kinda like ehh [2026-01-10T03:58:05Z] maybe love2d isnt the best idea for a full corpseparty esque game [2026-01-10T03:58:22Z] ive never used unity [2026-01-10T03:58:24Z] I think that it might work but you're going to write your own framework on top I think [2026-01-10T03:58:26Z] i used UE3 / UDK back in the day [2026-01-10T03:58:36Z] well I'm kinda biased :P [2026-01-10T03:58:41Z] but I used it for a few years actually [2026-01-10T03:58:54Z] i tried it for a few days and i just didnt vibe with it [2026-01-10T03:59:00Z] on linux it was a nightmare [2026-01-10T03:59:01Z] there's also a bunch of like, libraries too, of course [2026-01-10T03:59:04Z] https://github.com/love2d-community/awesome-love2d [2026-01-10T03:59:07Z] nice [2026-01-10T03:59:11Z] that's exactly what I was thinking of [2026-01-10T03:59:14Z] yeah theres a bunch of shit [2026-01-10T03:59:14Z] and other awesome-lists for other engines [2026-01-10T03:59:19Z] it feels a bit like "higher level SDL" to me [2026-01-10T03:59:20Z] anim8 for example [2026-01-10T03:59:25Z] so i dont have to deal with the quads and whatnot directly [2026-01-10T03:59:27Z] to animate sprites [2026-01-10T03:59:34Z] like, cross platform tool for rendering and stuff, physics helpers and whatnot but that's it [2026-01-10T03:59:43Z] woa [2026-01-10T03:59:45Z] it dery [2026-01-10T03:59:45Z] i may just give godot another try [2026-01-10T03:59:46Z] hi dery [2026-01-10T03:59:51Z] but im gonna have to fuck this sandbox up [2026-01-10T03:59:57Z] as in disable like 90% of what's allowed [2026-01-10T03:59:57Z] hiii mid [2026-01-10T04:00:00Z] and a kris deltarune as well [2026-01-10T04:00:02Z] woa [2026-01-10T04:00:06Z] MID [2026-01-10T04:00:09Z] lol [2026-01-10T04:00:10Z] https://www.ebay.com/itm/146184239532 [2026-01-10T04:00:11Z] MID look [2026-01-10T04:00:15Z] i am so tempted to get this [2026-01-10T04:00:21Z] lemme know kris about how it goes [2026-01-10T04:00:34Z] also I don't remember, you're using an X11 WM or a Wayland compositor? [2026-01-10T04:00:38Z] i'm on sway [2026-01-10T04:00:41Z] ohhhhh nice [2026-01-10T04:00:56Z] then you might be interested in trying the *experimental* wayland backend, made by yours truly :P [2026-01-10T04:00:58Z] kris_: you need to watch this then https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=UyUlIqeyAgs [2026-01-10T04:01:06Z] definitely nicer on tiling stuff than XWayland in my experience [2026-01-10T04:01:13Z] but there are still rough edges [2026-01-10T04:01:19Z] well the last time i did this i just disabled the x11 socket [2026-01-10T04:01:21Z] and it seemed to work fine [2026-01-10T04:01:32Z] what version was that? [2026-01-10T04:01:36Z] dunno [2026-01-10T04:01:40Z] how much time ago [2026-01-10T04:01:44Z] 2-3 months [2026-01-10T04:01:47Z] ohhhh [2026-01-10T04:01:50Z] those thin clients are nice [2026-01-10T04:01:51Z] love this guy so so much [2026-01-10T04:01:52Z] yea it's been in there for a while [2026-01-10T04:01:56Z] i bet you could install plan 9 on it [2026-01-10T04:01:57Z] actually just a car salesman [2026-01-10T04:02:00Z] you tried my code then :D [2026-01-10T04:02:47Z] godot is also packaged on void but i really just hate using things external to flatpak [2026-01-10T04:02:50Z] things like this anyway [2026-01-10T04:03:14Z] midfavila: im thinking i get it to run my dns proxy on [2026-01-10T04:03:15Z] yea that's fair [2026-01-10T04:03:26Z] altho, the thing got really minimal dependencies lemme tell you :P [2026-01-10T04:03:28Z] 8gb of emmc is diabolical though [2026-01-10T04:03:31Z] ok now I feel like a car dealer xD [2026-01-10T04:03:36Z] dery: its more about the sandboxing [2026-01-10T04:03:41Z] i dont like things having permissions they dont need to have [2026-01-10T04:03:47Z] obviously i could also use conty [2026-01-10T04:03:52Z] kris_: 8gb of emmc is fine [2026-01-10T04:03:53Z] well I hope you're using flatseal [2026-01-10T04:03:58Z] i am indeed [2026-01-10T04:04:05Z] aight [2026-01-10T04:04:05Z] not a single flatpak on my system is using its stock sandbox [2026-01-10T04:04:14Z] well that says something [2026-01-10T04:04:24Z] not about you, about flatpak [2026-01-10T04:04:30Z] yeah it says most package maintainers on flathub dont know what they're doing [2026-01-10T04:04:32Z] or are just lazy [2026-01-10T04:04:44Z] don't blame them, working with dbus is somehow way more annoying that it should [2026-01-10T04:04:50Z] not even talking about the protocol itsefl [2026-01-10T04:04:56Z] midfavila: it's kinda like not and stuff [2026-01-10T04:05:02Z] like, you have no idea what the hell we're doing rn for some basic portal stuff [2026-01-10T04:05:04Z] that gives me maybe 1gb to spare [2026-01-10T04:05:11Z] I tried writing a proper event loop but serialization hurts [2026-01-10T04:05:18Z] but man its so cheap [2026-01-10T04:05:21Z] and way faster than a rpi [2026-01-10T04:05:25Z] the current "proper" solutions IIRC depend on... glib... or qt [2026-01-10T04:05:32Z] i just wish i could upgrade the storage in it to be at least like 16gb [2026-01-10T04:05:34Z] 16gb would be comfy [2026-01-10T04:06:01Z] I mean kris, dunno about void but with alpine you can spend basically no space [2026-01-10T04:06:07Z] a nice diskless setup [2026-01-10T04:06:09Z] kris_: my laptop only has 8gb idk man [2026-01-10T04:06:12Z] then it depends on what you wanna do [2026-01-10T04:06:16Z] im kind of obligated to use void here [2026-01-10T04:06:20Z] since i'm the blocky package maintainer on void [2026-01-10T04:06:28Z] oh [2026-01-10T04:06:40Z] well I hope you mount the thing RO at least [2026-01-10T04:06:48Z] flash does not like being used like that AFAIK [2026-01-10T04:06:54Z] indeed it doesn't [2026-01-10T04:06:56Z] which scares me even more [2026-01-10T04:07:01Z] nah I wouldn't be scared [2026-01-10T04:07:10Z] put the os there and just slap an external ssd or whatever [2026-01-10T04:07:24Z] yeah but then it isnt smol anymore [2026-01-10T04:07:26Z] or, hell, use another server as the storage, how crammy that might be [2026-01-10T04:07:35Z] I'm pretty sure you can make that tidy enough [2026-01-10T04:07:47Z] get a 90 degree usb connector and just double-sided-tape the thing on itself [2026-01-10T04:07:57Z] they made 16gb models of these but i cant find any that arent ridiculously expensive [2026-01-10T04:08:44Z] I'd still not use the emmc as an actual disk if you want that thing to last [2026-01-10T04:08:46Z] fr [2026-01-10T04:09:06Z] the only thing worse than soldered storage is broken soldered storage [2026-01-10T04:09:21Z] i might be able to get a little adapter board to get it to use microsd [2026-01-10T04:09:29Z] which would be fine because i have some very very durable microsd cards on standby [2026-01-10T04:09:34Z] rated for more read/write than my desktops ssds are infact [2026-01-10T04:09:39Z] uh did they improve the sd game [2026-01-10T04:09:56Z] last time I tried them a forced power cycle would mean guaranteed corruption [2026-01-10T04:09:57Z] you just need to be picky about which one you get [2026-01-10T04:10:03Z] samsung pro endurance sd cards are solid [2026-01-10T04:10:48Z] that's interesting [2026-01-10T04:11:22Z] bye eva [2026-01-10T04:11:30Z] bye eva [2026-01-10T04:13:13Z] well I think I'll do... stuff [2026-01-10T04:13:20Z] as I said, pretty satisfied with my work today [2026-01-10T04:13:23Z] cya folks [2026-01-10T04:13:26Z] <3' [2026-01-10T04:13:27Z] ttyl [2026-01-10T04:13:55Z] where was my heart [2026-01-10T04:14:11Z] <3 [2026-01-10T04:14:15Z] tysm [2026-01-10T08:44:38Z] wahoo [2026-01-10T08:44:46Z] dery!!!!!!! [2026-01-10T08:44:47Z] welcome back [2026-01-10T08:45:00Z] came back to the kiss sandboxing thing and I am already finding funky missing dependencies [2026-01-10T08:45:05Z] hi kris_!!!!! [2026-01-10T08:45:20Z] steam locomotive [2026-01-10T08:45:34Z] apparently openssl depends on linux-headers as a make dependency but it's not declared as such [2026-01-10T08:45:59Z] the scripts are still too rough but I'll try to slowly make them pretty [2026-01-10T08:46:19Z] doesn't help that bwrap takes arguments, which are absolute pain, but I can make it work probably [2026-01-10T08:46:30Z] rn the kiss path is kinda hardcoded [2026-01-10T08:46:38Z] but yea, I'll keep building stuff :D [2026-01-10T08:47:10Z] mh, maybe I could even set up a build server, who knows [2026-01-10T08:47:35Z] just churning "clean" packages built on top of basically `repo/core` [2026-01-10T08:49:13Z] can anybody reach owen? They're the maintainer of the openssl apparentl [2026-01-10T08:49:16Z] y [2026-01-10T08:49:30Z] dery: this is why we need sandboxed builds [2026-01-10T08:49:39Z] https://github.com/git-bruh/kiss-ng [2026-01-10T08:49:46Z] i found this the other day [2026-01-10T08:49:52Z] looks really cool [2026-01-10T08:50:03Z] bruh [2026-01-10T08:50:06Z] using landlock for sandboxing is sick [2026-01-10T08:50:08Z] I had no idea this was already being worked on [2026-01-10T08:50:10Z] this is really cool indeed [2026-01-10T08:50:30Z] also never heard of landlock [2026-01-10T08:50:37Z] its a newer thing [2026-01-10T08:50:48Z] https://docs.kernel.org/userspace-api/landlock.html [2026-01-10T08:50:54Z] it's **kinda** our equivalent of openbsds pledge/unveil [2026-01-10T08:51:15Z] still not sure what's the difference with bubblewrap [2026-01-10T08:51:30Z] oh [2026-01-10T08:51:33Z] it's got finegrained permissions [2026-01-10T08:51:37Z] that's cool [2026-01-10T08:52:39Z] i dont have an opinion on zig [2026-01-10T08:52:43Z] i need to try it out at some point [2026-01-10T08:52:55Z] I'm neutral about it [2026-01-10T08:53:05Z] I don't see much point tbh, I'd very much rather invest into rust personally [2026-01-10T08:53:20Z] but as I said, I'm neutral, I won't judge :P [2026-01-10T08:53:20Z] the only opinion i have on zig is that it's a little problematic rn [2026-01-10T08:53:24Z] on void its like [2026-01-10T08:53:26Z] why [2026-01-10T08:53:29Z] update zig? old things wont compile [2026-01-10T08:53:33Z] dont update zig? new things wont compile [2026-01-10T08:53:35Z] oof [2026-01-10T08:53:42Z] well that's kinda rust too :P [2026-01-10T08:53:47Z] altho I think the issue is only in one direction [2026-01-10T08:54:02Z] i need to go to the vape shop [2026-01-10T08:54:04Z] my car has a flat tire [2026-01-10T08:54:13Z] random as fuck i know but still am irritated [2026-01-10T08:54:16Z] that said, I can see that this implementation is somewhat opinionated, which is good, as it gives me space to make my own opinionated thing [2026-01-10T08:54:18Z] mwahahahaha [2026-01-10T08:54:25Z] opinionated stuff is good [2026-01-10T08:54:32Z] dude theres even a kiss impl in elisp [2026-01-10T08:54:34Z] also, I'm still working on my sandbox thing as I plan to reuse the original package manager [2026-01-10T08:54:34Z] i found the other day [2026-01-10T08:54:40Z] heck yea [2026-01-10T08:54:46Z] we need as many kiss implementations as possible [2026-01-10T08:54:53Z] altho unfortunately there isn't really a detailed standard [2026-01-10T08:55:00Z] somebody worked on it iirc but eh, markdown moment [2026-01-10T08:55:04Z] i mean i think the normal kiss package manager is the standard [2026-01-10T08:55:06Z] let's all just follow the original implementation :P [2026-01-10T08:55:14Z] yea that's what I call the markdown effect [2026-01-10T08:55:19Z] it's not really... ideal [2026-01-10T08:55:26Z] but eh, the point of kiss is that it's dead simple [2026-01-10T08:55:28Z] i had planned on implementing my own as well if i ever really used kiss [2026-01-10T08:55:42Z] mostly for sandboxing but also i wanted to split up the source [2026-01-10T08:55:44Z] and if a package is too naughty for some implementation to reasonably work... it's the package fault I'd say :P [2026-01-10T08:55:47Z] (e.g. funky names) [2026-01-10T08:55:52Z] i'm a very file-spammy type of developer [2026-01-10T08:56:05Z] like id have a different file for each of kiss' functions like build, install, etc [2026-01-10T08:56:11Z] indeed [2026-01-10T08:56:12Z] just keeps things easier to mentally parse for me [2026-01-10T08:56:19Z] in practice it is already like this basically [2026-01-10T08:56:27Z] with the extension system [2026-01-10T08:56:30Z] kinda [2026-01-10T08:56:40Z] idk i didnt spend very much time with it [2026-01-10T08:56:48Z] getting elogind working beat me into the dirt [2026-01-10T08:56:57Z] I never studied much the source code of kiss but I don't think that it'd be hard to split the thing [2026-01-10T08:57:03Z] yea I get the feeling [2026-01-10T08:57:06Z] get some rest [2026-01-10T08:57:20Z] however at the time i didnt know crux existed [2026-01-10T08:57:26Z] now that i do, i can reference a lot of their packages [2026-01-10T08:57:31Z] nice [2026-01-10T08:57:35Z] eventually [2026-01-10T08:57:41Z] that's another underrated thing of many distros [2026-01-10T08:57:46Z] packaging isn't entirely wasted [2026-01-10T08:57:48Z] and [2026-01-10T08:57:57Z] it encourages software to be decently packageable in the first place [2026-01-10T08:58:01Z] (hopefully) [2026-01-10T08:58:02Z] crux has vibes [2026-01-10T08:58:05Z] i love their init scripts [2026-01-10T08:58:24Z] never seen em [2026-01-10T08:58:27Z] its bsd-coded [2026-01-10T08:58:33Z] planning to move to s6 eventually [2026-01-10T08:58:36Z] uhhh nice [2026-01-10T08:58:44Z] I actually really like the fact that bsd ports are built using make [2026-01-10T08:58:46Z] https://crux.nu/Main/Handbook3-8#ntoc23 [2026-01-10T08:58:49Z] here's an example of one [2026-01-10T08:58:53Z] not because of make itself, it could be a wrapper as far as I'm concerned [2026-01-10T08:59:04Z] but I really like reusing the muscle memory of running `make` [2026-01-10T08:59:07Z] you just put the service scripts you want to start in an array in rc.conf and it starts them in the order they're in in that array [2026-01-10T08:59:15Z] and shuts them down in the opposite order [2026-01-10T08:59:20Z] wym array [2026-01-10T08:59:22Z] i dont really like parallelization with services so i like that [2026-01-10T08:59:27Z] dery: a bash array [2026-01-10T08:59:32Z] bruh [2026-01-10T08:59:34Z] but it says /bin/sh [2026-01-10T08:59:58Z] welp, another missing linux-headers [2026-01-10T09:00:05Z] from libfyaml [2026-01-10T09:00:11Z] https://crux.nu/Main/Handbook3-8#ntoc21 [2026-01-10T09:00:28Z] SERVICES=(crond lo net sshd) [2026-01-10T09:00:39Z] im pretty sure that isnt posix compliant..? [2026-01-10T09:00:43Z] yea [2026-01-10T09:00:48Z] that's an extension, definitely [2026-01-10T09:00:50Z] just checking incase i'm hallucinating [2026-01-10T09:00:59Z] but crux defaults to gnu utilities so i figure it has bash by default [2026-01-10T09:01:06Z] ive never actually used it ive just read a shit ton of their packages and doc [2026-01-10T09:01:07Z] I'm sure that posix doesn't support arrays [2026-01-10T09:01:10Z] it doesnt [2026-01-10T09:01:23Z] but you can get the same functionality pretty easily [2026-01-10T09:01:26Z] but symlinking bash to /bin/sh is unfortunately an epic fail IMO [2026-01-10T09:01:27Z] in this context [2026-01-10T09:01:37Z] they should've just used a space separated string imo [2026-01-10T09:01:37Z] my hot take for the day is that dash should be /bin/sh [2026-01-10T09:01:40Z] ^ [2026-01-10T09:02:12Z] mhh IIRC the most posix compliant is like, yash [2026-01-10T09:02:14Z] the /bin/sh isnt a shell that is supposed to be used interactively [2026-01-10T09:02:18Z] or some other less known stuff [2026-01-10T09:02:23Z] yea indeed [2026-01-10T09:02:28Z] but actually dash has some quirk I'm sure of that [2026-01-10T09:02:35Z] yeah its got some extensions [2026-01-10T09:03:01Z] i dont really mind that [2026-01-10T09:03:01Z] you'd be surprised how many nice features of POSIX are not implemented in _any_ util package [2026-01-10T09:03:12Z] posix isnt even a real standard [2026-01-10T09:03:17Z] i mean like it is but in practice its not [2026-01-10T09:03:19Z] nobody respects it [2026-01-10T09:03:26Z] I really appreciated adélie linux work in that [2026-01-10T09:03:50Z] they did gcompat and other shims to add the full posix experience (IIRC they even wanted to get certified eventually) [2026-01-10T09:04:27Z] at some point ill probably just write my own init scripts [2026-01-10T09:04:31Z] mostly inspired by cruxs [2026-01-10T09:04:36Z] just like, dash compliant [2026-01-10T09:04:59Z] what i really wanna do is lift ash from busybox and have it build by itself to use as the interactive shell on the system [2026-01-10T09:05:05Z] busyboxs ash is my favorite interactive shell [2026-01-10T09:05:11Z] dash is very very fast so i like it for /bin/sh [2026-01-10T09:05:26Z] oh that will be interesting to see [2026-01-10T09:05:37Z] wonder how hard it would be and if it would be worth it in the first place [2026-01-10T09:05:47Z] I'd be surprised if you couldn't build it separately somehow [2026-01-10T09:05:58Z] or even just build busybox with only that and name it "dash" :P [2026-01-10T09:06:12Z] or ash [2026-01-10T09:06:36Z] i mean i could just build busybox with only that enabled [2026-01-10T09:06:38Z] but that seems scuffed to me [2026-01-10T09:06:46Z] and i cant remove bash from my system anyway i need it for a few things [2026-01-10T09:06:58Z] yea same [2026-01-10T09:07:06Z] I mean, that's just cherry picking really [2026-01-10T09:07:09Z] if bash is here i might as well just use it [2026-01-10T09:07:14Z] its a good interactive shell [2026-01-10T09:07:15Z] if it were #!/bin/bash I wouldn't even blink an eye :P [2026-01-10T09:07:19Z] that's the real ragebait imo [2026-01-10T09:07:20Z] lol [2026-01-10T09:07:30Z] #!/bin/sh with bash is just... ughhhhhhhh [2026-01-10T09:07:42Z] unless the thing turns extensions off but this is clearly not the case [2026-01-10T09:07:45Z] it pisses me off when people shebang bash in scripts that use zero bash features [2026-01-10T09:07:56Z] i dont always have bash on things i'm running services from i use alpine here and there [2026-01-10T09:08:01Z] most people don't even know the difference [2026-01-10T09:08:04Z] and I don't blame them [2026-01-10T09:08:10Z] i mean i kinda blame them [2026-01-10T09:08:15Z] we're the weird ones tbf [2026-01-10T09:08:46Z] I mean let's face it most of the work we're doing is kinda for fun, otherwise we'd have used, dunno, slackware [2026-01-10T09:09:01Z] i dont really like slackware [2026-01-10T09:09:05Z] why [2026-01-10T09:09:14Z] their stable release moves too slow to be useful for me [2026-01-10T09:09:17Z] sounds pretty much on par with what we're doing [2026-01-10T09:09:19Z] their rolling release is a thing but like [2026-01-10T09:09:32Z] BRUH [2026-01-10T09:09:32Z] idk ill hold my tongue, i need to do a manual install of it [2026-01-10T09:09:37Z] ANOTHER MISSING LINUX-HEADERS [2026-01-10T09:09:42Z] AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA [2026-01-10T09:09:52Z] e2fsprogs [2026-01-10T09:09:55Z] when i went through the slackware installer a few years ago it installed so much garbage i didnt need [2026-01-10T09:10:11Z] I'd be surprised if you couldn't configure that [2026-01-10T09:10:12Z] and it only supports like, the lilo bootloader [2026-01-10T09:10:16Z] last i checked [2026-01-10T09:10:21Z] i dont use bootloaders i use UKIs [2026-01-10T09:10:24Z] I never tried it so I can only talks so much [2026-01-10T09:10:30Z] wait is the kernel preconfigured [2026-01-10T09:10:39Z] yeah [2026-01-10T09:10:44Z] slackware kinda just works [2026-01-10T09:10:47Z] oh [2026-01-10T09:10:53Z] its a very high quality system its just not a system *for me* from what i saw [2026-01-10T09:10:59Z] but its been years and i've changed as a person and don't remember much so [2026-01-10T09:11:15Z] im getting bored of void at this point [2026-01-10T09:11:16Z] I kinda always expect it to be more hardcore for some reason [2026-01-10T09:12:10Z] btw should we just assume that linux-headers are always present [2026-01-10T09:12:20Z] because it really seems to me that most packages kinda do [2026-01-10T09:12:24Z] and I mean, it's in repo/core sooooo [2026-01-10T09:13:04Z] but then wtf do some packages add it as a dependency and others not [2026-01-10T09:13:10Z] ugh [2026-01-10T09:13:30Z] yeah lacking sandboxing makes this happen [2026-01-10T09:13:38Z] and theres a few other niceities with sandboxing anyway [2026-01-10T09:13:47Z] yea like I don't even need root anymore if not for installing [2026-01-10T09:13:50Z] which is a godsnet [2026-01-10T09:13:53Z] godsend [2026-01-10T09:13:58Z] voids xbps-src doesnt allow networking or anything in the build environment to prevent projects from trying to be sneaky and pull something in during build that isnt there normally [2026-01-10T09:14:30Z] nice [2026-01-10T09:14:45Z] AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA [2026-01-10T09:14:48Z] bubblewrap [2026-01-10T09:14:49Z] AAAAAAA [2026-01-10T09:14:54Z] this is, what, the fourth package? [2026-01-10T09:14:58Z] I just want to build flatpak [2026-01-10T09:15:01Z] kill me [2026-01-10T09:15:07Z] `kill -9` me [2026-01-10T09:15:41Z] I can't make PRs for this can I [2026-01-10T09:15:46Z] I think I'll make an issue [2026-01-10T09:16:19Z] there's an annoying thing tho, we can't really detect if xz, pigz or bzip2 are required as they're part of the "root" due to kiss [2026-01-10T09:16:57Z] perhaps I could sneak them into another directory and somehow make kiss use them but ehhhh [2026-01-10T09:17:02Z] I'm lazy, that's how I got this far anyways [2026-01-10T09:17:27Z] i think expecting xz and stuff to be there is sensible [2026-01-10T09:17:41Z] fair [2026-01-10T09:17:51Z] altho I wouldn't consider the whole repo/core to be there [2026-01-10T09:17:57Z] there's stuff like grub and, well, linux-headers [2026-01-10T09:18:04Z] ...and fuse. [2026-01-10T09:18:09Z] not in repo/core [2026-01-10T09:18:13Z] like, no linux-headers [2026-01-10T09:21:32Z] wahoo [2026-01-10T09:21:39Z] built flatpak from start to finish [2026-01-10T09:28:13Z] hell yeah [2026-01-10T09:28:54Z] oh dylan updated his readme in november 11 [2026-01-10T09:29:00Z] "Coming very soon" [2026-01-10T09:29:02Z] he did indeed [2026-01-10T09:29:02Z] I missed that [2026-01-10T09:29:29Z] i bet he's just fucking with us [2026-01-10T09:29:50Z] lol you say? [2026-01-10T09:30:04Z] honestly I don't know what to expect anymore, I just hope the best for him [2026-01-10T09:39:37Z] (btw it wasn't sarcasm, "you say" as literally do you really think that) [2026-01-10T09:41:18Z] i have no idea, i never met him