[2026-01-22T01:12:23Z] <midfavila> maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
[2026-01-22T01:12:31Z] <midfavila> for a day off work i'm absolutely exhausted
[2026-01-22T01:12:43Z] <midfavila> my ikea order came in so i've done nothing for the past five hours but build furniture
[2026-01-22T01:13:15Z] <midfavila> probably another two or three hours to go
[2026-01-22T01:13:33Z] <midfavila> my keyboard stuff came in too so i gotta build that
[2026-01-22T01:19:35Z] <midfavila> i got a slatted bedframe for the first time too
[2026-01-22T01:19:38Z] <midfavila> crazy comfy 
[2026-01-22T01:19:50Z] <midfavila> ive only ever had boxsprings or platforms
[2026-01-22T01:21:04Z] <midfavila> honestly, i don't understand why people say ikea is poor quality
[2026-01-22T01:21:19Z] <midfavila> like, okay, yes, if you buy their pressboard stuff it's shit
[2026-01-22T01:21:26Z] <midfavila> but that's pressboard in general
[2026-01-22T01:21:43Z] <midfavila> you can get some really nice solid wood pieces from ikea for a very reasonable price 
[2026-01-22T02:15:03Z] <pressure> hey kiss-find tells me that texinfo and intel-ucode are in the repos but kiss b cant find them to build them
[2026-01-22T02:15:36Z] <pressure> repos i have are core, extra, wayland, and community
[2026-01-22T02:25:07Z] <sad_plan> pressure: neither exists in community or kiss-community/repo. intel-ucode however does exist in mkiss repo and xdream8's repo. if you need them, just package them yourself
[2026-01-22T02:29:40Z] <pressure> how do i find other repos besides the ones linked on the community webpage?
[2026-01-22T02:34:05Z] <sad_plan> using kiss find will give you the link, aswell as the directory
[2026-01-22T02:34:27Z] <sad_plan> i.e. for intel-ucode: intel-ucode,20221108 1,https://github.com/mdartmann/mkiss.git,core/intel-ucode,main,"Mae Dartmann"
[2026-01-22T02:35:31Z] <sad_plan> kiss-find uses the topic kiss-repo on github and other places to find kiss-repos. so if a repo contains this tag, it will be included in the search
[2026-01-22T02:35:40Z] <sad_plan> make sure to update it regurarly  though
[2026-01-22T02:36:28Z] <pressure> thanks
[2026-01-22T02:36:51Z] <sad_plan> by updating it, i mean kiss-find -u to update the database. its also noted in the post-install, in case you missed it
[2026-01-22T02:36:54Z] <sad_plan> youre welcome C:
[2026-01-22T16:03:25Z] <sad_plan> fuuuuuuuuuuck...... I broke the spring for some of my keys on my laptop keyboard......
[2026-01-22T16:04:16Z] <sad_plan> it has this stupid plastic thingys, and I was just trying to see if I could get my 'd' key to work a bit better, as it was acting up a bit.
[2026-01-22T16:05:10Z] <sad_plan> if forgot how the spring was supposed to sit, so I took off the cap for my 's' key aswell, but when assembling it, one of the nobs holding the spring together broke..
[2026-01-22T16:05:38Z] <sad_plan> figured I could sacrifice my super key, but the spring isnt the same, and it also broke when I took it of
[2026-01-22T16:05:41Z] * sad_plan sobs
[2026-01-22T16:10:45Z] <sad_plan> stealing the sring from my 8 key works though. I still have a numpad, and the switch isnt broken either. now I atleast can write properly again
[2026-01-22T16:56:44Z] <kris_> sad_plan: 
[2026-01-22T16:56:48Z] <kris_> sad* 
[2026-01-22T16:56:56Z] <kris_> i hate autofill on this client
[2026-01-22T16:57:26Z] <kris_> what keyboard is it?
[2026-01-22T17:04:08Z] <sad_plan> get a better client. maybe weechat instead? 
[2026-01-22T17:04:18Z] <sad_plan> its just a laptop keyboard for my acer laptop
[2026-01-22T17:05:17Z] <kris_> I'm on mobile, using goguma
[2026-01-22T17:05:18Z] <sad_plan> I wouldve probably never tried weechat if it werent for it being one of the clients on tilde.club
[2026-01-22T17:05:22Z] <kris_> only decent android client
[2026-01-22T17:05:25Z] <sad_plan> ah, yes goguma
[2026-01-22T17:05:47Z] <sad_plan> yeah i know. I used revolution in the past, but it got abondoned afaik. so goguma it was
[2026-01-22T17:06:00Z] <kris_> yep, also used to use revolution
[2026-01-22T17:06:04Z] <sad_plan> you could use weechat remote though. to connect to a running weechat client
[2026-01-22T17:07:22Z] <sad_plan> ive never gotten it to work, but I also stopped looking into it after a few minutes :p
[2026-01-22T17:08:04Z] <sad_plan> https://github.com/ubergeek42/weechat-android if you didnt know which one I was refering to
[2026-01-22T20:07:44Z] <Ozymandias42> hoh nice! so formatting works here! this should appear as code
[2026-01-22T20:20:53Z] <midfavila> it depends on your client
[2026-01-22T20:24:22Z] <kris_again> Ozymandias42
[2026-01-22T20:25:13Z] <Ozymandias42> works in Halloy
[2026-01-22T20:25:30Z] <midfavila> doesn't in irssi
[2026-01-22T20:25:36Z] <kris_again> it could work in fiji for all i care ozy reply to me
[2026-01-22T20:25:46Z] <midfavila> also ih eva
[2026-01-22T20:25:47Z] <midfavila> hi
[2026-01-22T20:25:48Z] <midfavila> eva
[2026-01-22T20:25:50Z] <midfavila> :3333333333333
[2026-01-22T20:27:03Z] <Ozymandias42> also works in TheLounge
[2026-01-22T20:27:19Z] <kris_again> no seriously it could work like
[2026-01-22T20:27:22Z] <kris_again> on the moon
[2026-01-22T20:27:26Z] <midfavila> yea but the point is that you shouldn't rely on it Ozymandias42 
[2026-01-22T20:27:26Z] <kris_again> and im still not getting a hello
[2026-01-22T20:27:32Z] <midfavila> it's not standard
[2026-01-22T20:28:04Z] <Ozymandias42> midfavila I am not. it wasn't visible to you but I did do /mode #kisslinux first to check if it was +c . It was not
[2026-01-22T20:28:35Z] <Ozymandias42> also hi Eva o/
[2026-01-22T20:28:37Z] <Ozymandias42> long time no see
[2026-01-22T20:28:53Z] <Ozymandias42> unfortunately bad timing. I was just about to head to bed
[2026-01-22T20:29:06Z] <kris_again> see
[2026-01-22T20:29:14Z] <kris_again> this si why im only here when im drunk you all hate me so bad
[2026-01-22T20:29:40Z] <midfavila> look at what you've done to eva
[2026-01-22T20:29:41Z] <midfavila> >:c
[2026-01-22T20:29:50Z] <Ozymandias42> always leaving immediately after dropping negativity, just so nobody can say something nice to her
[2026-01-22T20:30:49Z] <Ozymandias42> but for real. I had just turned of my monitors and was just about to go when a notification popped in on my phone. reminding me that it was not quite yet 9:30pm and therefore DnD mode was not yet auto-enabled
[2026-01-22T20:32:07Z] <Ozymandias42> anyway, I might talk a bit here tomorrow. good night o/
[2026-01-22T20:36:32Z] <midfavila> https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=ktTfV6VEATk
[2026-01-22T20:36:36Z] <midfavila> eva i have music 4 u
[2026-01-22T20:36:46Z] <midfavila> night Ozymandias42 
[2026-01-22T20:51:54Z] <kris_> hi eva
[2026-01-22T20:51:59Z] <kris_> hi midfavila 
[2026-01-22T21:19:24Z] <midfavila> hey deltarune
[2026-01-22T21:21:21Z] <dery> hi everyone
[2026-01-22T21:21:29Z] <midfavila> hey dery
[2026-01-22T21:21:35Z] <midfavila> :3
[2026-01-22T21:21:56Z] <dery> hiiiii
[2026-01-22T21:22:02Z] <dery> how is life going
[2026-01-22T21:22:07Z] <midfavila> good
[2026-01-22T21:22:11Z] <dery> nice
[2026-01-22T21:22:17Z] <midfavila> i built a bunch of furniture last night
[2026-01-22T21:22:21Z] <midfavila> including my new computer desk
[2026-01-22T21:22:24Z] <dery> built like
[2026-01-22T21:22:25Z] <dery> ikea
[2026-01-22T21:22:29Z] <midfavila> well, yeah
[2026-01-22T21:22:30Z] <midfavila> :P
[2026-01-22T21:22:36Z] <midfavila> i didn't go cut down the tree myself
[2026-01-22T21:22:36Z] <dery> I mean, we're in #kisslinux
[2026-01-22T21:22:40Z] <dery> I think that's a reasonable answer xD
[2026-01-22T21:22:43Z] <dery> question*
[2026-01-22T21:23:10Z] <midfavila> but yeah i also put together a keyboard kit
[2026-01-22T21:23:15Z] <midfavila> so that's neat
[2026-01-22T21:23:18Z] <dery> nice
[2026-01-22T21:23:20Z] <midfavila> still waiting on keycaps tho
[2026-01-22T21:23:33Z] <dery> so uh a bunch of furniture cause you moved or just because you needed some new furniture in general
[2026-01-22T21:23:35Z] <dery> if I may ask
[2026-01-22T21:23:42Z] <midfavila> needed new furniture 
[2026-01-22T21:23:48Z] <midfavila> both to finish my flat and replace some stuff that broke
[2026-01-22T21:23:52Z] <dery> nice
[2026-01-22T21:23:54Z] <midfavila> also
[2026-01-22T21:23:58Z] <midfavila> i wanted a fuckin rug
[2026-01-22T21:24:08Z] <midfavila> i've never owned a rug before and i wanted one gdi
[2026-01-22T21:24:15Z] <midfavila> so i bought one that was on sale 
[2026-01-22T21:24:23Z] <dery> I might be biased due to dust... intolerance but what's the appeal?
[2026-01-22T21:24:25Z] <dery> genuine question :P
[2026-01-22T21:24:30Z] <midfavila> https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/vodskov-rug-flatwoven-natural-light-gray-90512379/
[2026-01-22T21:24:40Z] <dery> oooooooh
[2026-01-22T21:24:41Z] <midfavila> not damaging my landlord's floors that i put three months of rent down on
[2026-01-22T21:24:42Z] <dery> that's pretty
[2026-01-22T21:24:44Z] <midfavila> and yes
[2026-01-22T21:24:48Z] <midfavila> it's very nice
[2026-01-22T21:24:54Z] <dery> I was thinking of the fluffy ones
[2026-01-22T21:25:02Z] <midfavila> i only paid 200$ for it and it covers almost the entire main area of my flat
[2026-01-22T21:25:03Z] <dery> this one is just... a piece of linen, which is miles better
[2026-01-22T21:25:18Z] <midfavila> nah i don't like shag rugs
[2026-01-22T21:25:30Z] <midfavila> for the same reason i don't like super soft beds or couches
[2026-01-22T21:25:36Z] <dery> I just realized the perfect thing you need
[2026-01-22T21:25:49Z] <dery> buy one of those aprons that say "kiss the chef"
[2026-01-22T21:25:54Z] <midfavila> also the vodskov doesn't use any synthetic materials which is nice
[2026-01-22T21:26:00Z] <midfavila> i do need an apron actually
[2026-01-22T21:26:10Z] <dery> one of those that says kiss the chef
[2026-01-22T21:26:14Z] <midfavila> pff
[2026-01-22T21:26:18Z] <dery> easy #kisslinux merchandise
[2026-01-22T21:26:43Z] <midfavila> tbf if it meant we could have one or two people work on projects of interest to the broader kiss community i would be down for that sort of thing
[2026-01-22T21:26:51Z] <midfavila> like as a job i mean
[2026-01-22T21:27:01Z] <midfavila> that would be super cool
[2026-01-22T21:27:17Z] <dery> yea I'd be down to get some more effort into the project in general
[2026-01-22T21:27:37Z] <dery> but over time I've been kinda figuring out that it's a bit... weird
[2026-01-22T21:27:38Z] <midfavila> tbf i don't know how much work there needs to be done on kiss itself
[2026-01-22T21:27:46Z] <dery> I think actually quite a lot of QoL stuff
[2026-01-22T21:27:48Z] <dery> like sandboxing
[2026-01-22T21:27:51Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2026-01-22T21:27:54Z] <midfavila> fair enough i guess
[2026-01-22T21:28:07Z] <dery> but the issue with kiss and its infrastructurless design is that you just kinda have to be kinda lazy to work on it in a way
[2026-01-22T21:28:09Z] <midfavila> full disclosure i haven't used kiss full time in a while
[2026-01-22T21:28:12Z] <dery> like, stay with me
[2026-01-22T21:28:24Z] <dery> or hear me out not sure what's the best phrase
[2026-01-22T21:28:32Z] <midfavila> either or
[2026-01-22T21:28:51Z] <dery> but like, the magic of the package manager and general architecture here is maximizing code reuse
[2026-01-22T21:28:57Z] <dery> or in other words: lazyness
[2026-01-22T21:29:05Z] <midfavila> that's not laziness
[2026-01-22T21:29:06Z] <dery> that's how I've actually managed to make progress on kiss in general
[2026-01-22T21:29:12Z] <midfavila> that's just good design
[2026-01-22T21:29:30Z] <midfavila> it's what i love about lisp compared to c 
[2026-01-22T21:29:44Z] <dery> dunno some more effort in a tad more places wouldn't be bad but feel so out of place
[2026-01-22T21:30:07Z] <dery> like, kiss depends a lot on git due to various reasons
[2026-01-22T21:30:10Z] <dery> and is a huge shell scripts
[2026-01-22T21:30:13Z] <midfavila> you can write functions that accept functions and return functions, so you can make code that's *super* generalisable 
[2026-01-22T21:30:24Z] <dery> yea but I'm not talking just about that
[2026-01-22T21:30:27Z] <midfavila> yeah i will say i'm not a fan of git
[2026-01-22T21:30:32Z] <dery> like literally reusing as much software as possible
[2026-01-22T21:30:45Z] <midfavila> i cut out all my git sources years ago and it makes my life so much easier
[2026-01-22T21:30:59Z] <dery> tbh they're annoying because of some limitations in the package manager itself
[2026-01-22T21:31:07Z] <midfavila> they're just annoying intrinsicaly 
[2026-01-22T21:31:08Z] <dery> it's not exactly offline-ready
[2026-01-22T21:31:11Z] <dery> nah I say not
[2026-01-22T21:31:12Z] <midfavila> intrinsically even
[2026-01-22T21:31:15Z] <midfavila> no, it is
[2026-01-22T21:31:18Z] <dery> why
[2026-01-22T21:31:18Z] <midfavila> git hard depends on curl
[2026-01-22T21:31:25Z] <midfavila> curl hard depends on openssl's api
[2026-01-22T21:31:33Z] <dery> what about other git implementations
[2026-01-22T21:31:36Z] <midfavila> like?
[2026-01-22T21:31:42Z] <dery> I think... got?
[2026-01-22T21:31:50Z] <midfavila> got isn't ready last i checked
[2026-01-22T21:31:53Z] <midfavila> at least not on linux
[2026-01-22T21:32:02Z] <dery> I mean if all you want to do is download
[2026-01-22T21:32:03Z] <midfavila> and even then it still uses the openssl api, doesn't it?
[2026-01-22T21:32:18Z] <dery> despite what many say, I think that git is genius to download code
[2026-01-22T21:32:24Z] <dery> it's crazy tailored and efficient
[2026-01-22T21:32:35Z] <midfavila> >FTP
[2026-01-22T21:32:43Z] <dery> there are limitations mind you but in practice I don't think there's a more efficient way to download software _and_ successive patches in the wild
[2026-01-22T21:32:54Z] <dery> yea you can do FTP but then after an update you're redownloading most stuff twice
[2026-01-22T21:32:56Z] <dery> and thrice
[2026-01-22T21:32:57Z] <dery> and so on
[2026-01-22T21:33:03Z] <midfavila> just download the delta
[2026-01-22T21:33:05Z] <dery> just look at the rust package
[2026-01-22T21:33:08Z] <dery> yea somebody gotta make it tho
[2026-01-22T21:33:14Z] <dery> that's why I say in practie
[2026-01-22T21:33:16Z] <dery> also
[2026-01-22T21:33:27Z] <dery> I did some testing and it's still more efficient, using linux as an example
[2026-01-22T21:33:31Z] <midfavila> idk
[2026-01-22T21:33:31Z] <dery> I think I got the numbers somewhere
[2026-01-22T21:33:41Z] <midfavila> to be frank i don't think all this talk about efficiency is worth much
[2026-01-22T21:33:50Z] <dery> well, depends on what you're optimizing
[2026-01-22T21:33:56Z] <midfavila> efficiency in service to what? like, 
[2026-01-22T21:34:00Z] <dery> my dream version of kiss uses the least amount of bandwidth possible
[2026-01-22T21:34:10Z] <midfavila> kiss generally only has simple software
[2026-01-22T21:34:18Z] <midfavila> sure there are some libraries that are really large
[2026-01-22T21:34:23Z] <midfavila> mesa and shit
[2026-01-22T21:34:32Z] <midfavila> but those don't usually get updated often
[2026-01-22T21:34:37Z] <dery> eh, llvm and rust for example
[2026-01-22T21:34:43Z] <dery> mesa is tiny
[2026-01-22T21:34:51Z] <midfavila> i think mesa is the largest package on my system
[2026-01-22T21:34:52Z] <midfavila> lol
[2026-01-22T21:35:10Z] <dery> well, I need way more "normal" stuff unfortunately
[2026-01-22T21:35:21Z] <dery> I daily drove the thing for like, school lmao
[2026-01-22T21:35:26Z] <midfavila> so did i 
[2026-01-22T21:35:36Z] <dery> how did you run the js bloaties
[2026-01-22T21:35:39Z] <midfavila> i didn't
[2026-01-22T21:35:40Z] <midfavila> lol
[2026-01-22T21:35:54Z] <midfavila> i told my teachers to accept my essays as PDFs or fuck off
[2026-01-22T21:36:11Z] <midfavila> and then emailed them 
[2026-01-22T21:36:18Z] <dery> welp I could not afford that
[2026-01-22T21:36:24Z] <dery> we used google classroom for everything
[2026-01-22T21:36:28Z] <dery> mind you I was in high school
[2026-01-22T21:36:37Z] <dery> I literally started high school and the pandemic started
[2026-01-22T21:36:46Z] <dery> you don't have much leverage as a... what... 14 year old?
[2026-01-22T21:36:51Z] <midfavila> rip
[2026-01-22T21:37:16Z] <dery> altho now that I think about it I started using kiss a few years later
[2026-01-22T21:37:19Z] <dery> still a kid
[2026-01-22T21:38:08Z] <dery> so yea I still need the annoying stuff
[2026-01-22T21:38:53Z] <midfavila> ig these days i would take the easy route and point at conty
[2026-01-22T21:38:56Z] <dery> funnily enough a whole ass game engine is not the most heavy software on my machine
[2026-01-22T21:39:17Z] <dery> conty and other container tools in general are starting to make a lot of sense to me
[2026-01-22T21:39:38Z] <dery> When shit got annoying I resorted to chroots in the past but they're so annoying
[2026-01-22T21:39:46Z] <midfavila> yeah chroots are very limited
[2026-01-22T21:39:50Z] <kris_> hi dery 
[2026-01-22T21:39:55Z] <dery> namespaces are just fancy chroots, I kinda wonder why they got all the hate
[2026-01-22T21:39:57Z] <kris_> and yeah godot is huge
[2026-01-22T21:39:58Z] <dery> hi kris_ 1!!!!1!1111
[2026-01-22T21:40:08Z] <dery> no actually I'm saying it's pretty tiny for what it does
[2026-01-22T21:40:15Z] <kris_> it is
[2026-01-22T21:40:24Z] <kris_> but its still a large piece of software
[2026-01-22T21:40:26Z] <dery> oh yea
[2026-01-22T21:40:30Z] <dery> but not the biggest, which is weird
[2026-01-22T21:40:34Z] <dery> like rust takes ages to build
[2026-01-22T21:40:36Z] <dery> llvm same
[2026-01-22T21:40:44Z] <dery> mesa is surprisingly tiny actually
[2026-01-22T21:40:52Z] <kris_> idk im out of touch
[2026-01-22T21:41:04Z] <dery> nw
[2026-01-22T21:41:04Z] <kris_> nothing really takes long to build for me
[2026-01-22T21:41:09Z] <dery> that's the dream
[2026-01-22T21:41:19Z] <dery> honestly that's why I started using flatpaked librewolf
[2026-01-22T21:41:26Z] <kris_> you can have that dream for the low low price of a 265k + motherboard
[2026-01-22T21:41:31Z] <kris_> and ram
[2026-01-22T21:41:37Z] <dery> of a what
[2026-01-22T21:41:47Z] <kris_> my cpu is a core ultra 7 265k
[2026-01-22T21:41:51Z] <dery> oh
[2026-01-22T21:41:56Z] <kris_> 20 real cores feels wild
[2026-01-22T21:42:09Z] <dery> actually I'm reading 8P and 12E
[2026-01-22T21:42:25Z] <kris_> those E cores are like 10th/11th gen intel speeds
[2026-01-22T21:42:29Z] <dery> oh nice
[2026-01-22T21:42:45Z] <kris_> and they can be overclocked of course
[2026-01-22T21:42:55Z] <dery> I mean tbh my laptop is 8c/16t
[2026-01-22T21:42:58Z] <kris_> i dont bother with oc though
[2026-01-22T21:43:07Z] <dery> yea it's not worth the thermals
[2026-01-22T21:43:26Z] <dery> I think the issue with me is that I use a lot of "normal" software
[2026-01-22T21:43:33Z] <kris_> oh i can absolutely cool it
[2026-01-22T21:43:37Z] <kris_> overkill cooler
[2026-01-22T21:43:43Z] <dery> although tbf most of the modern freedesktop stack is way tinier that you'd expect
[2026-01-22T21:43:48Z] <dery> pipewire is c, light as hell
[2026-01-22T21:43:58Z] <dery> dbus is kinda weird but it's not *that* annoying
[2026-01-22T21:44:06Z] <dery> wayland, you know the drill
[2026-01-22T21:44:09Z] <dery> same with portals actually
[2026-01-22T21:44:24Z] <dery> oh also flatpak and bwrap actually
[2026-01-22T21:44:27Z] <midfavila> i still don't get the point of pipewire
[2026-01-22T21:44:30Z] <midfavila> alsa is fine
[2026-01-22T21:44:38Z] <kris_> alsa doesnt do video
[2026-01-22T21:44:44Z] <midfavila> ...why would it?
[2026-01-22T21:44:46Z] <dery> ngl, I really like changing per-software volunme
[2026-01-22T21:44:49Z] <dery> midfavila: video sharing
[2026-01-22T21:44:55Z] <kris_> pipewire does video on wayland
[2026-01-22T21:44:58Z] <kris_> as well as audio
[2026-01-22T21:45:04Z] <midfavila> ...what the hell are you guy talking about?
[2026-01-22T21:45:06Z] <midfavila> just use jitsi
[2026-01-22T21:45:09Z] <dery> how
[2026-01-22T21:45:12Z] <dery> how do you think you do video sharing
[2026-01-22T21:45:15Z] <dery> like the screen
[2026-01-22T21:45:40Z] <midfavila> i've not used pulse for ages let alone pipewire and jitsi works just fine
[2026-01-22T21:45:43Z] <midfavila> so
[2026-01-22T21:45:47Z] * midfavila shrugs?
[2026-01-22T21:45:50Z] <dery> for sharing the screen?
[2026-01-22T21:45:52Z] <midfavila> yes
[2026-01-22T21:45:59Z] <dery> on wayland
[2026-01-22T21:46:05Z] <midfavila> i don't give a shit about wayland
[2026-01-22T21:46:06Z] <midfavila> >.>
[2026-01-22T21:46:10Z] <dery> welp here is the issue
[2026-01-22T21:46:12Z] <midfavila> it's bad software
[2026-01-22T21:46:13Z] <kris_> pipewire is what actually allows for display capture midfavila 
[2026-01-22T21:46:16Z] <kris_> on wayland
[2026-01-22T21:46:21Z] <dery> achtually
[2026-01-22T21:46:27Z] <kris_> actchually
[2026-01-22T21:46:31Z] <dery> there's a wlr protocol for getting the screen but the most peaceful way they found was to put everything under a portal and tell people to use that 
[2026-01-22T21:46:32Z] <kris_> ahcktchually
[2026-01-22T21:46:34Z] <midfavila> i actually dn't care
[2026-01-22T21:46:43Z] <dery> the implementations use whatever way they can
[2026-01-22T21:46:46Z] <midfavila> like this is what i mean about wayland
[2026-01-22T21:46:50Z] <dery> wlr uses teh wayland protocol, gnome does whatever it does
[2026-01-22T21:46:52Z] <midfavila> people go off about how it's such a great solution
[2026-01-22T21:47:01Z] <midfavila> and then it introduces a bunch of problems that require their own workarounds 
[2026-01-22T21:47:05Z] <midfavila> when X just works
[2026-01-22T21:47:09Z] <dery> mid it's not that complicated, clients can't snoop buffers randomly
[2026-01-22T21:47:09Z] <kris_> for you
[2026-01-22T21:47:20Z] <midfavila> for everyone for the past 40 years
[2026-01-22T21:47:24Z] <kris_> not for me
[2026-01-22T21:47:27Z] <midfavila> wayland still bugs out constantly
[2026-01-22T21:47:30Z] <kris_> not for most people i know
[2026-01-22T21:47:35Z] <midfavila> the only people complaining are HDR chuds
[2026-01-22T21:47:45Z] <dery> I mean I've got mixed dpi on my desktop
[2026-01-22T21:47:50Z] <kris_> "you shouldn't have modern hardware that's bad just don't use it"
[2026-01-22T21:47:52Z] <dery> and X11 stuff breaks pretty hard
[2026-01-22T21:47:54Z] <midfavila> or people with 99999999999999hz monitors
[2026-01-22T21:48:09Z] <dery> mid I've been around wayland for years and you're being pretty obtuse, respectfully
[2026-01-22T21:48:16Z] <dery> nobody is forcing you to use wayland-based stuff
[2026-01-22T21:48:16Z] <midfavila> everyone always says X has issues with mixed DPI and i've never run into it
[2026-01-22T21:48:23Z] <dery> but the benefits are tangible in a lot of cases
[2026-01-22T21:48:29Z] <midfavila> for whom and how
[2026-01-22T21:48:38Z] <dery> for one, software developers
[2026-01-22T21:48:44Z] <dery> you do not want to see how the godot x11 backend is built
[2026-01-22T21:48:51Z] <kris_> do you just expect me to get rid of my second display so my primary will run at its expected refresh rate
[2026-01-22T21:48:52Z] <dery> for two, users, despite what you say
[2026-01-22T21:49:07Z] <midfavila> kris_: i've used mixed refresh rate monitors on X before
[2026-01-22T21:49:10Z] <dery> I have weird ass hardware and *it just works* on sway, without messing with the ancient monolith that is the xorg server
[2026-01-22T21:49:13Z] <kris_> unsuccessfully, yes
[2026-01-22T21:49:17Z] <dery> it's a mainetnance mess, for good reasons
[2026-01-22T21:49:28Z] <kris_> i really adore sway
[2026-01-22T21:49:35Z] <dery> I did not expect to do "the talk" here
[2026-01-22T21:49:46Z] <midfavila> this is a hill i will die on
[2026-01-22T21:49:58Z] <midfavila> i will stop using GUIs before i switch to wayland
[2026-01-22T21:49:59Z] <dery> I'll just add that wayland is not the "subversive software" that phoronix users say
[2026-01-22T21:50:05Z] <dery> if you look at the x12 proposal it's basically it
[2026-01-22T21:50:06Z] <kris_> just because you dont have issues on your hardware doesnt mean the issues dont exist
[2026-01-22T21:50:19Z] <dery> xcb works exactly the same way, asynchronous api defined through xml with codegen bindings
[2026-01-22T21:50:23Z] <dery> object oriented I might add
[2026-01-22T21:50:29Z] <midfavila> kris_: if your super special .000000001% of setups has issues i literally don't care
[2026-01-22T21:50:31Z] <dery> what kris_ said btw
[2026-01-22T21:50:32Z] <midfavila> i'm serious
[2026-01-22T21:50:38Z] <dery> mid nobody is saying you must care
[2026-01-22T21:50:42Z] <dery> nobody is saying you must use wayland stuff
[2026-01-22T21:50:49Z] <dery> nobody is getting x11 away from your hands
[2026-01-22T21:50:57Z] <dery> use fbcon for what concern me
[2026-01-22T21:51:01Z] <dery> concerns*
[2026-01-22T21:51:05Z] <dery> I don't get the aggressiveness
[2026-01-22T21:51:06Z] <dery> fr
[2026-01-22T21:51:19Z] <midfavila> the problem is that people are sreeching about muh deprecated software for no good reason
[2026-01-22T21:51:22Z] <kris_> on another note the ps3 super slims can now be CFW'd via a custom mod chip you make with a rpi pico
[2026-01-22T21:51:29Z] <midfavila> and constantly chaging shit that doesn't need to be changed
[2026-01-22T21:51:33Z] <dery> well mid you know people like to work on shit and if nobody is working on x11 can you blame them
[2026-01-22T21:51:40Z] <midfavila> yes, actually, i can
[2026-01-22T21:51:45Z] <dery> mid ffs you're talking in a niche distro irc chat
[2026-01-22T21:51:47Z] <midfavila> considering millions of devices rely on X
[2026-01-22T21:51:48Z] <dery> are you fucking serious rn
[2026-01-22T21:51:48Z] <kris_> i legit dont know what else to tell you other than maintain x11 yourself
[2026-01-22T21:51:58Z] <kris_> or wait on the rewrite someones doing
[2026-01-22T21:52:01Z] <kris_> called phoenix
[2026-01-22T21:52:30Z] <kris_> x11 has been a problem for me for over 10 years at this point
[2026-01-22T21:52:32Z] <dery> nobody is screeching on deprecated software, people want to add new features and use new hardware and the X11 protocol itself has some harcoded limitations that would break compatiblity if changed
[2026-01-22T21:52:33Z] <midfavila> i don't even care about the X.Org server on its own, i use tinyx. the protocol is what matters. 
[2026-01-22T21:52:47Z] <kris_> like literally since i started using nix x11 has been an issue
[2026-01-22T21:52:55Z] <midfavila> >using nix
[2026-01-22T21:53:12Z] <kris_> yeah as an inclusive term for the bsds
[2026-01-22T21:53:13Z] <dery> I'm not inventing this btw, look at this https://www.x.org/wiki/Development/X12/
[2026-01-22T21:53:21Z] <midfavila> oh i thought you meant nixos
[2026-01-22T21:53:22Z] <midfavila> lol
[2026-01-22T21:53:26Z] <midfavila> also i'm aware of x12
[2026-01-22T21:53:32Z] <dery> fr, if you're happy with tinyx, go for it, nobody is forcing you
[2026-01-22T21:53:39Z] <midfavila> for what it's *worth* i'm not exactly an x11 stan
[2026-01-22T21:53:42Z] <midfavila> i would *prefer* mgr
[2026-01-22T21:53:43Z] <dery> it's never going to die, otherwise people would not work on xwayland
[2026-01-22T21:53:55Z] <kris_> i ran windows on desktop until wayland stabilized 
[2026-01-22T21:54:00Z] <dery> I think there is also software for the opposite, so it's not like new tools are going to be an issue for you
[2026-01-22T21:54:06Z] <midfavila> but given the choice between x11 and wayland, i would rather x11. it has better hardware support and it's omre efficient.
[2026-01-22T21:54:07Z] <kris_> i didnt take linux seriously for gui machines at all until then
[2026-01-22T21:54:10Z] <midfavila> s/omre/more/
[2026-01-22T21:54:13Z] <kris_> because holy shit my monitors work now
[2026-01-22T21:54:15Z] <midfavila> can't type today
[2026-01-22T21:54:19Z] <dery> no worries mid
[2026-01-22T21:54:20Z] <kris_> all of their features just work
[2026-01-22T21:54:22Z] <dery> but fr
[2026-01-22T21:54:26Z] <kris_> zero issues, no screen tearing
[2026-01-22T21:54:32Z] <dery> sorry if I'm so defensive but I'm somewhat sensitive to this kind of rethoric
[2026-01-22T21:54:38Z] <midfavila> kris_: what kind of wackass monitors are you even using
[2026-01-22T21:54:40Z] <midfavila> seriously
[2026-01-22T21:54:48Z] <dery> I can't open a goddamn linux website without hearing people spew the worst shit possible on a goddamn software stack
[2026-01-22T21:54:53Z] <kris_> ill send you the model numbers when i get home lok
[2026-01-22T21:55:13Z] <kris_> both are 2560x1440, one's 60hz and one's 240hz
[2026-01-22T21:55:15Z] <midfavila> i've had like four different display technologies connected to the same pc with different resolutions, refresh rates, and aspect ratios, and it all just works 
[2026-01-22T21:55:18Z] <kris_> ans theres the main issue
[2026-01-22T21:55:22Z] <dery> I've been working on porting godot to wayland for years and doing the absolute microscopic amount of stucc I can manage to do to bring the ecosystem forwards
[2026-01-22T21:55:33Z] <kris_> and my 240hz one also supports hdr which is nice
[2026-01-22T21:55:36Z] <kris_> since its an oled
[2026-01-22T21:55:36Z] <dery> stuff*
[2026-01-22T21:55:45Z] <midfavila> see i don't even fucking get the point of hdr
[2026-01-22T21:55:45Z] <dery> I think mid the mixed dpi thing applies to mixed dpi and scaling
[2026-01-22T21:55:52Z] <dery> hdr is nice
[2026-01-22T21:56:06Z] <midfavila> at a certain point you have to start upscaling shit just so you can see it 
[2026-01-22T21:56:17Z] <dery> what's the connection
[2026-01-22T21:56:22Z] <midfavila> the amount of information on screen ends up being the same at the end of the day
[2026-01-22T21:56:24Z] <kris_> the issue is that to get your window manager and stuff to actually run at 240fps on the primary with x11 you have to run both monitors at 240fps
[2026-01-22T21:56:36Z] <kris_> which creates horrid screen tearing
[2026-01-22T21:56:50Z] <kris_> and xorg is awful for input latency anyway in my experience 
[2026-01-22T21:56:53Z] <midfavila> again i've never had screen tearing
[2026-01-22T21:56:58Z] <kris_> YOU havent 
[2026-01-22T21:56:58Z] <dery> not really sure what you mean mid, like, if you have an sdr screen then yea it's going to be color mapped
[2026-01-22T21:57:23Z] <dery> and obviously if you don't have an hdr monitor... you can live with a simpler server, yeah
[2026-01-22T21:57:31Z] <midfavila> kris_: i don't think throwing out an entire display subsystem is warranted because some hdrchuds want to use their super special hardware
[2026-01-22T21:57:38Z] <dery> it's not only that mid
[2026-01-22T21:57:46Z] <midfavila> it really does sound like that's the primary motivator.
[2026-01-22T21:57:54Z] <dery> you literally cannot add a lot of features without writing new standards and making protocol changes
[2026-01-22T21:57:59Z] <dery> mid trust me it isn't lmao
[2026-01-22T21:58:04Z] <kris_> im not going to throw out a perfectly good side monitor and spend $600 again on an identical monitor as my primary just to compensate for software that has atrophied so badly it needs to be replaced entirely
[2026-01-22T21:58:06Z] <kris_> that's idiotic
[2026-01-22T21:58:06Z] <dery> you've read too much phoronix or something
[2026-01-22T21:58:15Z] <midfavila> i don't even read phoronix
[2026-01-22T21:58:17Z] <midfavila> :v
[2026-01-22T21:58:29Z] <dery> dunno where you took that but fr that's just most of the rethoric against it
[2026-01-22T21:58:47Z] <dery> and again it's the same rethoric of people that say that it's a red-hat conspiracy
[2026-01-22T21:58:52Z] <dery> fr I've heard so much fucking shit
[2026-01-22T21:59:08Z] <kris_> its impossible for it to be given everyone gets to implement wayland how they please
[2026-01-22T21:59:11Z] <kris_> its such a good design
[2026-01-22T21:59:19Z] <midfavila> probably because people tend to bring up either muh hdr, muh screen tearing, or muh theoretical snooping vulnerability aka *literally just normal screen/input recording*
[2026-01-22T21:59:30Z] <dery> people underestimate so hard the mess that display servers, IN GENERAL, are and how fucking complicated they are
[2026-01-22T21:59:32Z] <midfavila> and then that's somehow the justification for throwing out the entirety of X
[2026-01-22T21:59:44Z] <midfavila> dery: idk man mgr is like 80k lines of C tops
[2026-01-22T21:59:57Z] <dery> tbh, my main motivator for wayland isn't even any of what you said
[2026-01-22T22:00:06Z] <kris_> if you can get that shit working yourself then you're more powerful than 10s or hundreds of engineers
[2026-01-22T22:00:07Z] <midfavila> and even then the main stack for mgr is a fraction of that 80k
[2026-01-22T22:00:08Z] <dery> I really, really, really appreciate that there's a sane, if somewhat strict, window class system
[2026-01-22T22:00:12Z] <kris_> there's a reason nobody wants to work on that
[2026-01-22T22:00:24Z] <dery> have you ever used any minimally complex software on a tiling x11 wm
[2026-01-22T22:00:44Z] <midfavila> i would generally respond that most software that's "complex" is unnecessarily so
[2026-01-22T22:00:52Z] <midfavila> but i've used cad software and such if that counts
[2026-01-22T22:01:00Z] <dery> the strength and weakness of X11 is that rects are freely manipulatable. In the end people had to implement standards on top of it but nothing stops stuff to work in weird ways or be ignored
[2026-01-22T22:01:04Z] <midfavila> anyway, floating wms are better
[2026-01-22T22:01:12Z] <dery> I prefer tiling
[2026-01-22T22:01:16Z] <midfavila> but as long as everyone respects the icccm it's fine
[2026-01-22T22:01:19Z] <kris_> yeah i only use tilers
[2026-01-22T22:01:21Z] <dery> nobody does
[2026-01-22T22:01:25Z] <dery> and it's full of edge cases
[2026-01-22T22:01:27Z] <dery> it's a mess
[2026-01-22T22:01:33Z] <midfavila> see maybe they should respect it then.
[2026-01-22T22:01:39Z] <dery> trust me I tried
[2026-01-22T22:01:44Z] <midfavila> it really is that simple.
[2026-01-22T22:01:59Z] <dery> the godot multiwin code on x11 kept having issues for whatever reason, like the order of window mapping, what atom to use
[2026-01-22T22:02:04Z] <dery> and sometimes an atom works and another one doesn't
[2026-01-22T22:02:09Z] <dery> some stuff doesn't even have standard atoms
[2026-01-22T22:02:10Z] <dery> it's not that trivial
[2026-01-22T22:02:19Z] <midfavila> yeah i'm not saying it's trivial
[2026-01-22T22:02:19Z] <dery> and you can't change stuff without having compatibility
[2026-01-22T22:02:22Z] <midfavila> i'm saying it's simple
[2026-01-22T22:02:25Z] <dery> mid it really isn't
[2026-01-22T22:02:31Z] <kris_> im gonna have to install godot and play with it
[2026-01-22T22:02:36Z] <midfavila> it really is. you eithr comply and it works or you don't and it doesn't
[2026-01-22T22:02:37Z] <kris_> love2d is too minimal
[2026-01-22T22:02:42Z] <kris_> for what i want out of it
[2026-01-22T22:02:44Z] <midfavila> fucking hell this keyboard needs replacing 
[2026-01-22T22:03:03Z] <dery> you severely underestimate how complicated it is. It's not rare for a window manager to have weird bugs and you can't just say "cry lol"
[2026-01-22T22:03:12Z] <dery> also not only clients ignore icccm
[2026-01-22T22:03:12Z] <midfavila> i can, do, and will continue to
[2026-01-22T22:03:22Z] <dery> whatever you say
[2026-01-22T22:03:31Z] <dery> I'll just add that xlib is broken as hell apparently
[2026-01-22T22:03:38Z] <dery> not xcb mind you
[2026-01-22T22:03:56Z] <dery> there are weird threading issues that flip back and forth each version due to compiler quirks and compatibility concerns 
[2026-01-22T22:04:14Z] <dery> godot gets random unexplainable crashes due to some implicit threading thing
[2026-01-22T22:04:23Z] <midfavila> as in multithreading? 
[2026-01-22T22:04:23Z] <kris_> i need to set up a client on my laptop still, i hate typing on my phone
[2026-01-22T22:04:25Z] <dery> the X11 *ecosystem* is really not, not simple
[2026-01-22T22:04:30Z] <dery> midfavila: yes multithreading
[2026-01-22T22:04:33Z] <midfavila> because if so that makes sense
[2026-01-22T22:04:43Z] <dery> and please do not tell me that multithreading in a UI context is wrong cause I think I might stop here
[2026-01-22T22:04:43Z] <midfavila> considering xlib was designed to be synchronous 
[2026-01-22T22:04:54Z] <midfavila> it's not *wrong*, it's just not xlib's usecase
[2026-01-22T22:04:56Z] <dery> yea it's been rewritten as a shim on top of xcb
[2026-01-22T22:05:00Z] <dery> actually there is xinitthreads
[2026-01-22T22:05:00Z] <midfavila> yes, i'm aware
[2026-01-22T22:05:02Z] <dery> xlib supports threads
[2026-01-22T22:05:12Z] <midfavila> i'm aware it's been retrofitted with it, yes
[2026-01-22T22:05:15Z] <dery> it's just... broken somewhere and nobody can figure out a good way out of it afaict
[2026-01-22T22:05:24Z] <midfavila> xlib was designed with the intent to be synchronous however
[2026-01-22T22:05:27Z] <dery> apparently also due to compatibility concerns
[2026-01-22T22:05:34Z] * kris_ is wondering if he can speed up his emacs startup
[2026-01-22T22:05:36Z] <midfavila> at least as far as i recall, when i was actively studying X programming
[2026-01-22T22:05:41Z] <kris_> 730ms is insane
[2026-01-22T22:05:58Z] <dery> kris_: aren't there like debugging tools for that?
[2026-01-22T22:06:01Z] <midfavila> there are
[2026-01-22T22:06:04Z] <kris_> probably
[2026-01-22T22:06:06Z] <midfavila> hold on i have something in my config for this
[2026-01-22T22:06:16Z] <kris_> its like 195ms on my desktop
[2026-01-22T22:06:17Z] <midfavila> it's been a while but it has to do with memory pressure
[2026-01-22T22:06:21Z] <kris_> the i5 8350u is just slow
[2026-01-22T22:06:28Z] <kris_> midfavila: no i bumped all the limits for that
[2026-01-22T22:06:29Z] <midfavila> ????????????????
[2026-01-22T22:06:34Z] <dery> I'll just close the previous discussion by saying: can people just stop harassing me and other people for working on something they like
[2026-01-22T22:06:44Z] <dery> that's just reddit-ass "me vs them" logic
[2026-01-22T22:06:44Z] <kris_> welcome to foss dev
[2026-01-22T22:06:53Z] <midfavila> nobody is harassing you jesus
[2026-01-22T22:07:07Z] <dery> mid I work on wayland stuff
[2026-01-22T22:07:11Z] <dery> been doing that for years
[2026-01-22T22:07:28Z] <dery> and you say that "they" are dropping your favourite software for stupid concerns
[2026-01-22T22:07:50Z] <dery> you have no idea how much shit I've heard about a project I genuinely like contributing to
[2026-01-22T22:07:58Z] <midfavila> okay, but that's not harassment
[2026-01-22T22:08:02Z] <dery> and you repeated most of the same rethoric as if somebody pointed a gun at you
[2026-01-22T22:08:14Z] <dery> how do you want to call it
[2026-01-22T22:08:19Z] <midfavila> like if you want to go, idk, rewrite stuff in rust, go for it
[2026-01-22T22:08:25Z] <dery> but?
[2026-01-22T22:08:37Z] <midfavila> that doesn't mean other people have to like it, nor that you have to listen to their complaints
[2026-01-22T22:08:47Z] <midfavila> i'm not saying i demand people maintain X in perpetuity
[2026-01-22T22:08:52Z] <midfavila> that's silly
[2026-01-22T22:08:59Z] * midfavila rubs his eyes
[2026-01-22T22:09:09Z] <midfavila> fuck i'm too tired for this
[2026-01-22T22:09:10Z] <dery> so you're telling me that being told that what I do is useless hdr-chud stuff made for stupid reasons and that i have stupid concerns is not harassment
[2026-01-22T22:09:37Z] <dery> maybe there's the language barrier behind but I feel, genuinely, lots of distress rn
[2026-01-22T22:09:49Z] <midfavila> i'm saying that the notion that X11 should be discarded in its entirety because of extremely niche usecases
[2026-01-22T22:09:54Z] <midfavila> is kind of silly
[2026-01-22T22:09:58Z] <midfavila> that's it
[2026-01-22T22:10:13Z] <midfavila> if you aren't saying that, then it doesn't apply to you
[2026-01-22T22:10:15Z] <kris_> its only being discarded because nobody cares to work on it
[2026-01-22T22:10:21Z] <kris_> be the change you want to see etc etc
[2026-01-22T22:10:24Z] <dery> again I've heard so much shit and I've not been *personally* harassed but I've seen enough to know that it's a matter of time that by the time godot *defaults* to wayland some idiot is going to get angry as fuck
[2026-01-22T22:10:35Z] <dery> as if we won't keep the fucking bacend
[2026-01-22T22:11:00Z] <kris_> i sure love discord ads
[2026-01-22T22:11:07Z] <dery> mid I do not seriously give a fuck that you use X11, arcan, fbcon or whatever
[2026-01-22T22:11:15Z] <kris_> >open discord >free nitro!! 2 weeks free!!
[2026-01-22T22:11:18Z] <midfavila> yeah i'm not asking you to-
[2026-01-22T22:11:36Z] <dery> I feel like what you said above doesn't completely exclude me
[2026-01-22T22:11:44Z] <dery> I do think that eventually it's gotta be phased out, at least from the default
[2026-01-22T22:11:49Z] <dery> default as in, ubuntu and shit
[2026-01-22T22:12:04Z] <midfavila> if all you're doing is adding support for new stuff go for it
[2026-01-22T22:12:16Z] <dery> but I'm never going to hate you for using *whatever* software, that's the fucking point of this channel
[2026-01-22T22:12:42Z] <midfavila> my *problem*, as i said, is exclusively with situations where people try to throw out entire ecosystems that many people still rely on because of extreme edgecases
[2026-01-22T22:13:07Z] <kris_> its not as extreme as you'd think and most people arent making an effort to "throw it out"
[2026-01-22T22:13:09Z] <dery> you underestimate how much the average joe cares about said extreme edgecase, I think
[2026-01-22T22:13:13Z] <midfavila> that doesn't mean "oh man i have to compile it from source", that means, like, i dunno, doing shit like what happened with librsvg
[2026-01-22T22:13:16Z] <dery> also what kris_ said
[2026-01-22T22:13:30Z] <dery> also mid trust me nobody is trying to make x11 unviable
[2026-01-22T22:13:43Z] <dery> have you seen xwayland and wayback
[2026-01-22T22:13:47Z] <kris_> i think this is honestly just "i havent ever used a monitor setup like this so it must be suuuper rare"
[2026-01-22T22:13:51Z] <kris_> also yeah wayback is cool
[2026-01-22T22:13:52Z] <dery> it's basically the next closest thing to a maintained x11 server
[2026-01-22T22:13:56Z] <kris_> made by adrianne i think
[2026-01-22T22:14:00Z] <kris_> one of the alpine peeps
[2026-01-22T22:14:04Z] <dery> and it solves a lot of concerns maintanability wise actually
[2026-01-22T22:14:14Z] <midfavila> kris_: how many people are spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on just their monitors
[2026-01-22T22:14:21Z] <dery> a lot
[2026-01-22T22:14:22Z] <kris_> a lot
[2026-01-22T22:14:25Z] <dery> lmao
[2026-01-22T22:14:25Z] <midfavila> uh-huh
[2026-01-22T22:14:30Z] <midfavila> i'm sure
[2026-01-22T22:15:20Z] <kris_> i mean its like the most important peripheral
[2026-01-22T22:15:23Z] <midfavila> everyone is running dual-head 360hz 8k monitors just to do regular office work or whatever
[2026-01-22T22:15:26Z] <kris_> it makes sense to buy something good
[2026-01-22T22:15:50Z] <dery> I mean, I'm talking about hdr really
[2026-01-22T22:15:50Z] <kris_> like another realm my logic applies is power supplies
[2026-01-22T22:16:03Z] <dery> it's getting more and more common
[2026-01-22T22:16:08Z] <kris_> i bought a fatty with a 15 year warranty for pretty expensive so id not have to replace it for the forseeable futurw
[2026-01-22T22:16:15Z] <kris_> and yeah HDR is SUPER common
[2026-01-22T22:16:20Z] <kris_> not to mention TVs
[2026-01-22T22:16:21Z] <dery> and trust me mid, people want it
[2026-01-22T22:16:27Z] <dery> it's such a big marketing gimmick
[2026-01-22T22:16:29Z] <kris_> even cheapo like $400 TVs have HDR these days
[2026-01-22T22:16:35Z] <kris_> not great HDR
[2026-01-22T22:16:38Z] <kris_> but its there
[2026-01-22T22:16:46Z] <dery> and when it works (still a bit expensive for good hdr) it's gorgeous
[2026-01-22T22:16:55Z] <dery> yes mid, I watch movies with a computer
[2026-01-22T22:17:01Z] <dery> it's a thing
[2026-01-22T22:17:04Z] <kris_> i think i got my desktop monitor on sale for like 450 usd
[2026-01-22T22:17:10Z] <kris_> has real hdr but i dont really use that
[2026-01-22T22:17:15Z] <kris_> but it is an oled which kicks asa
[2026-01-22T22:17:23Z] <kris_> i do all of my media consumption on my desktop
[2026-01-22T22:17:28Z] <dery> I wish I could see the fancy UHD blu-ray steelbooks I got with my culture card in all their glory
[2026-01-22T22:17:30Z] <kris_> gaming, movies, tv
[2026-01-22T22:17:33Z] <midfavila> so do i, using a regular monitor, and it's fine. i'm not going to have this conversation any more.
[2026-01-22T22:17:44Z] <dery> that's fine
[2026-01-22T22:18:02Z] <dery> so uh
[2026-01-22T22:18:08Z] <midfavila> if you want to have your fancy peripherals go for it, but i'm more concerned with basics over niceties, and wayland still barely functions.
[2026-01-22T22:18:11Z] <dery> I should check if got depends on openssl
[2026-01-22T22:18:13Z] <midfavila> that's all i'll say on the matter.
[2026-01-22T22:18:20Z] <kris_> it functions perfectly fine
[2026-01-22T22:18:20Z] <midfavila> that said, i'm going back to work
[2026-01-22T22:18:24Z] <dery> you do you
[2026-01-22T22:18:29Z] <dery> aight, cya
[2026-01-22T22:18:33Z] <kris_> dery: expect questions about godot
[2026-01-22T22:18:39Z] <kris_> you've unknowingly signed up for support
[2026-01-22T22:18:42Z] <dery> I'll gladly help
[2026-01-22T22:18:47Z] <dery> I knowingly did xD
[2026-01-22T22:19:04Z] <kris_> i need to audit the manifest and then ill give it a poke
[2026-01-22T22:19:09Z] <kris_> once i get home
[2026-01-22T22:19:25Z] <kris_> love2d is just too far in one direction for me im trying to make a game not make a framework to make my game
[2026-01-22T22:20:27Z] <dery> yea
[2026-01-22T22:20:38Z] <dery> btw got seems to not hard depend on openssl
[2026-01-22T22:20:48Z] <dery> alpine uses libretls for exampl
[2026-01-22T22:21:17Z] <dery> void uses a generic "libtls-devel" package, not sure what that means
[2026-01-22T22:21:33Z] <dery> that seems to be libretls
[2026-01-22T22:21:56Z] <dery> or libressl, looks like it's a wrapper for that
[2026-01-22T22:22:11Z] <dery> so I guess that's going to be *very* portable
[2026-01-22T22:22:12Z] <dery> good to know
[2026-01-22T22:34:36Z] <kris_> i wonder how much effort it would be for a distro to just not use openssl
[2026-01-22T22:34:57Z] <kris_> there's another push to move to libressl at the moment because of yet again shit quality on openssls side
[2026-01-22T22:35:15Z] <kris_> could probably just yoink patches from openbsd in an ideal world
[2026-01-22T23:31:30Z] <kris_again> kris
[2026-01-22T23:31:53Z] <kris_again> fine ill stop
[2026-01-22T23:41:24Z] <kris_> hi eva!
[2026-01-22T23:41:32Z] <kris_> i was in the car so i didnt have my client open
[2026-01-22T23:41:49Z] <kris_> you cant irc and drive