[2026-02-08T03:14:07Z] sad_plan: yeah its really effective [2026-02-08T07:00:04Z] man every time i sit down and decide i want to try and learn a new skill or pick up a new hobby i'm immediately reminded of how bullshit wages are these days [2026-02-08T07:00:41Z] sewing is expensive, stationery is expensive, small woodworking projects are expensive... none of it is feasible [2026-02-08T07:01:58Z] even basic bicycle parts have become difficult to afford after the boom in cycling during covid... [2026-02-08T07:02:01Z] shit's fucked man [2026-02-08T07:05:39Z] only skills you can gain mostly for free are virtual ones [2026-02-08T07:06:08Z] mostly useless ones [2026-02-08T07:06:12Z] fixed that for you [2026-02-08T07:07:28Z] my IT knowledge got me a comfy job so there is that [2026-02-08T07:08:23Z] man that isn't even possible here unless you're a nepotistic piece of- sorry, highly skilled networker [2026-02-08T07:08:43Z] also somewhat unrelated but I find it amusing how qemu was labelled as least complex. [2026-02-08T07:08:46Z] you need that, or you need a fuckin college diploma, two to five years of experience, and every cert under the sun [2026-02-08T07:09:11Z] qemu is by far the most complex virtualisation tool. it’s ridiculously powerful [2026-02-08T07:09:39Z] hmm.. fair. I also have a bachelors degree [2026-02-08T07:10:02Z] yeah [2026-02-08T07:10:22Z] and it's not like you can just up and do that considering how expensive the cost of living has gotten [2026-02-08T07:10:33Z] so you just have to sit in hell forever [2026-02-08T07:10:35Z] i guess [2026-02-08T07:11:33Z] that seems to be the issue everywhere. not nice where the world is going [2026-02-08T07:19:09Z] i mean i don't know how long people will tolerate this shit [2026-02-08T07:19:36Z] you can't afford food, you can't afford housing, you can hardly afford clothing, muh little treats are increasingly unaffordable [2026-02-08T07:19:44Z] at least that's how it is here [2026-02-08T07:20:16Z] no fucking jobs [2026-02-08T07:20:28Z] * midfavila facedesks [2026-02-08T07:22:24Z] hundreds of thousands of dollars to build what amounts to a fucking *shed* to live in [2026-02-08T07:24:50Z] planet is literally on fire and actively trying to kill off humanity [2026-02-08T07:24:53Z] fucking hell [2026-02-08T15:01:35Z] Ozymandias42: when I said least complex, im not saying its not complex. im just saying its less complex than other solutions. or atleast thats my assumption. im guessing vmx(?) from plan9 is much simpler though :p [2026-02-08T15:01:50Z] midfavila: hurray for capitalism [2026-02-08T16:51:03Z] sad_plan: guess I now need to ask how you define complex and what you mean exactly when you use in in regards to qemu in contrast to other solutions. Because While qemu used from the terminal is straight forward, so is any of the UI solutions and so is qemu too if you cound using libvirt with virt-manager still as using qemu. However in terms of complexity it becomes fuzzy. [2026-02-08T16:53:49Z] if you talk about how difficult to use something is in terms of options that might overwhelm non-experts, then qemu on CLI is certainly not easy, when used with virt-manager or gnome-boxes however it is very much so. When talking about complexity in regards to how much it can do and how many "knobs" it gives you to turn, so to speak, then nothing beat qemu in complexity. as it is THE ISA emulator to front any low-level hv. Be it Xen, KVM, bhyv [2026-02-08T16:55:33Z] ..also even more foundational it might not be right to call qemu a hypervisor in the first place as it usually acts as the hardware emulating frontend to the actual hypervisor, while others bring their own stack for that even if they support using qemu as well [2026-02-08T16:56:15Z] qemu can run as it's own hypervisor in pure userland made without hw-extensions. And it does that when using it to run binaries or VMs of other architectures. That'd be TCG mode [2026-02-08T17:42:16Z] afternoon [2026-02-08T18:17:10Z] complexity as in total size, total amount of dependencies, total amount of code. but sure, usage could obviously be a factor one could include, but I wasnt really thinking about usability when I said it was the less complex solution. I only meant in regards to stuff like virtualbox. [2026-02-08T18:18:47Z] Ozymandias42: but sure, maybe qemu is more complex than I think it is. but I still think virtualbox and other big solutions are technically more complex than qemu from terminal is. despite virtualbox in this case probably being easier to use [2026-02-08T18:19:23Z] although maybe this is an unfair comparisson, and this is simply comparing apples to oranges [2026-02-08T18:19:42Z] never really used much outside of virtalbox years ago. because I never had a use for it [2026-02-08T18:20:24Z] although, I am thinking about building support for qemu, so that I can try out 9front. which is something Ive been wanting to do for some time now [2026-02-08T18:52:34Z] sad_plan: I've started my virtualization journey with Parallels for Mac, then VirtualBox when I did run into issues with parallels and then a bit directly with xhyve (Apple's bhyve fork frontend for HypervisorKit). Once I moved to Linux I immediately switched to KVM with Libvirt and Qemu via virt-manager [2026-02-08T18:54:55Z] Main reason I started out with Parallels is pretty interesting too. My first computer was a windows device. my second one a macbook. Because some windows things didn't run on mac back then my dad used Apple's BootCamp to DualBoot and Parallels was capable of booting that windows partition as VM which was really nice. Later on my second Mac I didn't do bootcamp anymore but still kept that windows install around as VM [2026-02-08T18:54:55Z] Main reason I started out with Parallels is pretty interesting too. My first computer was a windows device. my second one a macbook. Because some windows things didn't run on mac back then my dad used Apple's BootCamp to DualBoot and Parallels was capable of booting that windows partition as VM which was really nice. Later on my second Mac I didn't do bootcamp anymore but still kept that windows install around as VM [2026-02-08T21:21:28Z] hm, sounds like you tried a few more things than I have. ive mostly only used virtualbox on either windows, or linux. I did read up on using qemu a few years ago, but never really did anything with it [2026-02-08T22:29:33Z] qemu works quite well [2026-02-08T22:29:46Z] i use a frontend for libvirt/qemu/kvm though, virt-manager