[2026-05-19T00:11:34Z] i appreciate that, thanks [2026-05-19T00:21:20Z] i'm off to bed, will join tomorrow [2026-05-19T05:18:54Z] have a pretty decent little set of shell routines here for working with pm ngl [2026-05-19T05:18:59Z] i mean they're super clunky atm [2026-05-19T05:19:17Z] but i do at least have a recursive dependency resolver and automated builds [2026-05-19T05:19:59Z] i'm trying to stick to the KISS format so my packages will be suitable for use by those interested [2026-05-19T05:24:06Z] did you ever patch pm to not use libarchive though? I know you mentioned it a while back [2026-05-19T05:24:11Z] nah [2026-05-19T05:24:23Z] i think i'm going to write a replacement for pm in shell [2026-05-19T05:24:29Z] pm does even less than kiss so it shouldn't be hard [2026-05-19T05:24:38Z] I should work more on my rc package manager though [2026-05-19T05:24:45Z] yeah probably [2026-05-19T07:41:39Z] midfavila: I was actually looking into sandboxing kiss externally, through a wrapper of sorts [2026-05-19T07:41:58Z] working on that like, once in a blue moon tho, not because it's hard, but because I unironically have a crapton of stuff to do [2026-05-19T07:47:06Z] helo dairy [2026-05-19T07:58:51Z] alright lads [2026-05-19T07:58:53Z] we've done it [2026-05-19T07:59:08Z] we've gotten to the point where my shitbox can finally bootstrap itself to a somewhat usable state [2026-05-19T07:59:13Z] we have Xfbdev [2026-05-19T07:59:16Z] i repeat, we have Xfbdev [2026-05-19T07:59:24Z] claude, make me a distro [2026-05-19T07:59:30Z] no [2026-05-19T07:59:32Z] :gun: [2026-05-19T07:59:45Z] this is a clanker-free zone [2026-05-19T07:59:51Z] we do NOT tolerate cog-suckers here kris_ [2026-05-19T08:01:32Z] im so undecided on what i actually want out of a distro [2026-05-19T08:01:44Z] maybe nothing [2026-05-19T08:02:09Z] guix is in theory very cool and i like that the system is entirely foss [2026-05-19T08:02:22Z] but it's also like the antithesis of the type of software i usually use [2026-05-19T08:02:34Z] when will you convert to kiss [2026-05-19T08:02:52Z] probably when void does something naughty [2026-05-19T08:05:54Z] mid have you ever used s6 [2026-05-19T08:05:57Z] it seems kinda good actually [2026-05-19T08:06:10Z] ive not really looked into it much until last night because nothing uses it [2026-05-19T08:13:09Z] dery: cant you use something like boublewrap when running kiss? or what did you use to sandbox it? not that I really care about sandboxing in general, but im kinda curious [2026-05-19T13:35:36Z] https://wayland.fyi/ [2026-05-19T13:35:44Z] good rant against wlroots [2026-05-19T17:43:53Z] kris_: I've read lots about s6, sounds really cool [2026-05-19T17:44:14Z] I might unironically just use its process supervisor in some project of mine instead of reimplementing it lol [2026-05-19T17:44:59Z] sad_plan: yes I kinda do that, although the annoying part is knowing what to expose, how to expose it and a sane "base" environment [2026-05-19T17:45:33Z] bubblewrap ins't magic, and one of my requirements is that it stops random dependencies getting stuck in packages at random times, maybe even breaking them [2026-05-19T17:47:59Z] ilt: that actually sounds surprisingly... normal. For one second I was expecting bad vibes there, but it really just feels like people wanting really portable wayland with their own opinionated compositor, which is perfectly fine [2026-05-19T17:48:51Z] Nice seeing the "absolute simplest" audience growing, I like to see variety in the ecosystem [2026-05-19T17:49:52Z] > project of dérive linux [2026-05-19T17:49:55Z] oh that explains it [2026-05-19T17:50:31Z] dery: seems pretty nice, it's also already packaged on kiss [2026-05-19T17:51:05Z] ye [2026-05-19T17:51:10Z] I think dylan worked with it in mind [2026-05-19T17:51:15Z] and I think even planned to switch to it by default [2026-05-19T17:51:46Z] the path should be already plenty beaten, also s6 is surpsrisingly compatible with our stack already (mdevd), so I think it's really a matter of playing with it [2026-05-19T17:52:25Z] no idea about how to translate service definitions, or even what format it actually uses [2026-05-19T17:52:42Z] it seems to just run scripts similar to runit [2026-05-19T17:52:43Z] so [2026-05-19T17:52:55Z] i think it would be a situation of *mostly* just pulling services from void [2026-05-19T17:55:11Z] btw dérive and wlfiy really remind me of 9plan's website [2026-05-19T17:56:27Z] oh why do they have their own 4chan clone... I don't know how to interpret that [2026-05-19T17:58:52Z] little bit to be expected [2026-05-19T17:58:55Z] i feel like [2026-05-19T17:58:58Z] sorry 9front website [2026-05-19T17:59:02Z] not 9plan [2026-05-19T17:59:25Z] dunno there's a thin layer of irony but a very ambiguous one [2026-05-19T17:59:40Z] i use s6 :) have some packaged scripts in my repo on github.com/rfaa-se/kisslinux/s6-scripts [2026-05-19T17:59:53Z] that's very cool! [2026-05-19T18:00:03Z] oh sweet [2026-05-19T18:00:35Z] stole most of them tho [2026-05-19T18:01:00Z] that's fine [2026-05-19T18:01:23Z] so packages require their new service definitions am I understanding correctly? [2026-05-19T18:01:44Z] yeah pretty much [2026-05-19T18:01:48Z] also the whole work of `setup` sounds somewhat redundant [2026-05-19T18:01:58Z] IIRC dylan's generic init system was supposed to take care of that [2026-05-19T18:03:27Z] took a little while to figure it out [2026-05-19T18:03:47Z] think the author of s6 has been working a bit on the new frontend as well, haven't tried it yet tho [2026-05-19T18:03:56Z] oh well, food time [2026-05-19T22:38:38Z] kris_ i don't use service management [2026-05-19T22:38:57Z] i just use simple slackware-style scripts if i really need to have service management [2026-05-19T22:40:17Z] dery "dylan worked with in mind" re: wayland? [2026-05-19T22:40:49Z] fwiw the original kiss linux site explicitly marks wayland as verboten [2026-05-19T22:41:18Z] "this software will never be introduced into the repositories, because it opens the floodgates for software that nonoptionally depends on it" or whatever [2026-05-19T22:41:29Z] sysd, pulse, wayland, etc among others, iirc [2026-05-19T22:43:37Z] i also find it funny that that wayland.fyi website brags about wayland not being network transparent "because it's not 1985" as if that's an improvement lmao [2026-05-19T22:44:20Z] i would still prefer something like mgr... [2026-05-19T22:44:24Z] * midfavila sighs wistfully... [2026-05-19T22:45:48Z] mgr has its own issues, but i love that it's a *unix* windowing environment, and doesn't try to be anything else. it really takes the concept of a terminal to its absolute logical conclusion [2026-05-19T22:45:52Z] it's like uhhhhhh [2026-05-19T22:46:01Z] those blit terminals that unix system 8 or whatever used [2026-05-19T22:46:38Z] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blit_(computer_terminal) [2026-05-19T22:46:41Z] * midfavila swoons... [2026-05-19T22:48:44Z] a cleaned-up and enhanced twin(1) would also be perfectly suitable [2026-05-19T22:49:31Z] twin was my primary window environment for a while in high school and it was surprisingly comfy, although only being able to address space using character cells made it somewhat limited [2026-05-19T22:50:10Z] but run it on a framebuffer and give it some (very) basic graphical capabilities... that would be something special... [2026-05-19T22:50:32Z] i came across a book that discusses the design of a windowing system using curses, i'll have to try and buy a copy. it doesn't seem to be available anywhere online. [2026-05-19T22:51:25Z] i also need to look into the text widgets that finch used before it seems to have been dropped... they're based on glib, which sucks, but the idea is nice... [2026-05-19T22:53:21Z] so many ideas, so little time [2026-05-19T22:58:45Z] midfavila re "wayland?" no, s6 [2026-05-19T23:00:33Z] i've seen screens and read stuff about him experimenting with it and remember "init system independence" being one of the main requirements of the kiss system scripts [2026-05-19T23:01:40Z] oh, yeah, fair [2026-05-19T23:01:44Z] i mean maybe he'll drop back in [2026-05-19T23:01:49Z] i'm sure you can ask or maybe send him an email