[2026-06-06T03:28:11Z] <dery> ffs
[2026-06-06T03:28:21Z] <dery> I tried going there and I got one of the most annoying captchas ever
[2026-06-06T03:28:27Z] <dery> doable, but it took me a solid 5 mins I think
[2026-06-06T03:29:02Z] <dery> I can see a more "mainstream" site have this kind of thing, but archive.today out of all of them?
[2026-06-06T03:29:23Z] <dery> I hope it's possible to opt-out from the QR crap as a webmaster
[2026-06-06T03:33:05Z] <dery> ilt: have you tried pressing the headphones/eye icons?
[2026-06-06T03:33:20Z] <dery> I wonder if the audio captcha still works, and if the eye icon is the old one
[2026-06-06T06:15:45Z] <ilt> i haven't, but the last time i tried audio captha it played pure incomprehensible garbage. since then I don't even try
[2026-06-06T06:38:25Z] <midfavila> has anyone here fiddled with bsddialog?
[2026-06-06T06:38:41Z] <midfavila> apparently the fbsd people have their own version of dialog and it's way smaller 
[2026-06-06T06:39:29Z] <midfavila> ~=8k lines of C versus ~=18k lines for standard dialog
[2026-06-06T06:39:54Z] <midfavila> https://gitlab.com/alfix/bsddialog/
[2026-06-06T06:47:31Z] <midfavila> couple of quick changes to the gnumakefiles and it builds nicely against the nbsd curses lib
[2026-06-06T06:47:34Z] <midfavila> very neato
[2026-06-06T09:37:38Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/aligrudi/cell
[2026-06-06T09:38:01Z] <midfavila> i wonder if we could use this to make an even simpler option for sandboxing under kiss, compared to conty
[2026-06-06T09:38:25Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: i think you were looking at conty, what do you think of cell?
[2026-06-06T09:39:14Z] <midfavila> if the point is moreso just getting software running without polluting the host with tons of crap then it could be interesting
[2026-06-06T09:55:31Z] <shrub> for my distro i was considering https://github.com/arachsys/containers for sandboxing but that also looks good
[2026-06-06T10:06:33Z] <Guest11> ilt: Do you use ocaml?
[2026-06-06T10:23:34Z] <ilt> fortunately no
[2026-06-06T17:19:49Z] <midfavila> shrub aligrudi makes a lot of really great stuff
[2026-06-06T17:20:03Z] <midfavila> i'm a fan of his framebuffer software 
[2026-06-06T17:20:40Z] <shrub> i messed with neatcc before
[2026-06-06T17:20:43Z] <midfavila> my handheld hasn't got a GPU and the CPU is slow as hell so X is an exercise in frustration, but framebuffer stuff works swell
[2026-06-06T17:21:15Z] <midfavila> i haven't peeked at neatcc, to be honest. how is it?
[2026-06-06T17:21:16Z] <shrub> why not try software rendered wayland :)
[2026-06-06T17:21:22Z] <shrub> what kind of handheld is it?
[2026-06-06T17:21:24Z] <midfavila> hiss
[2026-06-06T17:21:29Z] <midfavila> it's a uconsole 
[2026-06-06T17:21:33Z] <midfavila> with the r01 SoM 
[2026-06-06T17:21:52Z] <midfavila> uses a D1 riscv soc with one 1ghz core and 1gb of memory 
[2026-06-06T17:22:11Z] <midfavila> it's kind of crusty but it's nice to have an actual linux machine with a keyboard and stuff in my pocket
[2026-06-06T17:22:27Z] <shrub> of that is very much crusty
[2026-06-06T17:22:31Z] <shrub> what do you use it for
[2026-06-06T17:22:33Z] <midfavila> has an lte modem and stuff too and the internals are reasonably modular
[2026-06-06T17:22:53Z] <midfavila> well, earlier this year i decided to stop carrying a smartphone
[2026-06-06T17:23:05Z] <shrub> that's awesome, i'd like to do that
[2026-06-06T17:23:10Z] <midfavila> so i've been using my uconsole for things like tracking expenses, making notes, checking the web, etcetera
[2026-06-06T17:23:29Z] <midfavila> i also had finch (TUI pidgin) set up, so i could do IMing and stuff on the go with the modem 
[2026-06-06T17:23:46Z] <midfavila> i was working on getting ffplay to draw to the framebuffer too so i could watch videos
[2026-06-06T17:23:47Z] <shrub> i was thinking to get a pinephone with the little keyboard thing, but i think i would mess with it for a week and then give up
[2026-06-06T17:23:59Z] <shrub> although i am interested in designing a mobile interface of some kind
[2026-06-06T17:24:02Z] <midfavila> the pinephone seems to be ass 
[2026-06-06T17:24:05Z] <shrub> isnt ffplay using sdl? iirc
[2026-06-06T17:24:20Z] <midfavila> yeah but you can also set up raw output
[2026-06-06T17:24:45Z] <midfavila> and if you set the raw output's pixel ordering to be in the format accepted by /dev/fb0 you can get it to draw straight to the framebuffer
[2026-06-06T17:25:01Z] <midfavila> ofc this was like six months ago i was working on this so i might be misremembering some stuff
[2026-06-06T17:25:06Z] <midfavila> but that's the gist of it
[2026-06-06T17:25:41Z] <shrub> i need a version of ffplay that's wayland-pure, because mpv is kinda a pain
[2026-06-06T17:25:45Z] <midfavila> the problem is that the display of the uconsole is actually intended to be used vertically, and the kernel doesn't reorient the framebuffer device itself, it just reorients the framebuffer *terminal*
[2026-06-06T17:26:22Z] <midfavila> so when you draw to the framebuffer using fbpad, fbv, ffplay, links2, etcetera it's either a) sideways compared to the physical orientation, or b) half the output gets cut off
[2026-06-06T17:26:39Z] <shrub> that sounds irritating
[2026-06-06T17:27:02Z] <shrub> is it mostly terminal applications you use on fb or is there some graphical stuff
[2026-06-06T17:27:05Z] <midfavila> yeah. i heard something about valve adding an option to recentish kernels for the steam deck that allows you to reorient the actual framebuffer, from dery i think, but that ofc requires access to the kernel source code
[2026-06-06T17:27:23Z] <midfavila> and clockworkpi, the creators, have made it a goddamn pain to access the kernel's code
[2026-06-06T17:27:33Z] <shrub> how so? is it a custom kernel?
[2026-06-06T17:27:36Z] <midfavila> they've also seemingly abandoned their in-house SoMs, the R01, A04, and A06
[2026-06-06T17:27:39Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2026-06-06T17:27:50Z] <midfavila> the SoC isn't supported by upstream yet
[2026-06-06T17:27:54Z] <shrub> send them an angry GPL compliance letter
[2026-06-06T17:28:05Z] <midfavila> i've considered it lol 
[2026-06-06T17:28:31Z] <shrub> if they don't comply, you can get the whole mob on them, they just did it to bambu lab
[2026-06-06T17:28:41Z] <midfavila> it's not even necessarily that they haven't made it available, one guy managed to get a custom kernel running with an arch setup, it's just fucking impossible to find the full patch set 
[2026-06-06T17:29:01Z] <midfavila> they shoved it in a git repo somewhere and then fucked up the history so you can't access the commit that had the patches in it, or... something? 
[2026-06-06T17:29:04Z] <midfavila> i can't recall 
[2026-06-06T17:29:24Z] <midfavila> as for what software i use, i mostly use TUI software on the uconsole because the keyboard is... 
[2026-06-06T17:29:27Z] <midfavila> ehhhhh?
[2026-06-06T17:29:39Z] <midfavila> it's serviceable but i'm not going to be banging out an emacs session on it
[2026-06-06T17:30:29Z] <midfavila> it's effectively just a clickpad, so it's got a high actuation weight, zero travel, and generally isn't *great*
[2026-06-06T17:30:39Z] <midfavila> it's those uhhhhhh metal domes or w/e
[2026-06-06T17:31:04Z] <shrub> oh yeah i remember
[2026-06-06T17:31:10Z] <shrub> i saw a pic of this ages ago
[2026-06-06T17:31:23Z] <midfavila> tbh i don't know if i'll use the uconsole for a long time. it's really cool, but it's unnecessarily bulky, harder to hack on than necessary, and there's poor support from both the vendor and upstream 
[2026-06-06T17:31:36Z] <midfavila> also the hardware is questionably designed
[2026-06-06T17:31:37Z] <midfavila> like
[2026-06-06T17:31:40Z] <midfavila> one thing i was super hyped about
[2026-06-06T17:32:04Z] <midfavila> was that the system has a GPIO bus that's exposed to an expansion slot 
[2026-06-06T17:32:14Z] <midfavila> so you can just stick whatever in there and access it via a character device
[2026-06-06T17:32:22Z] <midfavila> that sounded super useful
[2026-06-06T17:32:36Z] <midfavila> like i think someone shoved a little oscilloscope thingie in there
[2026-06-06T17:32:44Z] <shrub> that sounds pretty awesome
[2026-06-06T17:32:45Z] <midfavila> someone else got LoRa working
[2026-06-06T17:32:47Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2026-06-06T17:32:49Z] <midfavila> and i was even like
[2026-06-06T17:32:55Z] <midfavila> just having a GPIO bus is great
[2026-06-06T17:33:08Z] <midfavila> you could wire up serial or parallel or use it for flashing chips or whatever
[2026-06-06T17:33:17Z] <midfavila> and it's in a portable package with a keyboard and a proper linux system 
[2026-06-06T17:33:23Z] <midfavila> the *problem*,
[2026-06-06T17:33:40Z] <midfavila> is that it turns out that most of the lines on the "GPIO" bus are actually used for internal peripherals 
[2026-06-06T17:33:56Z] <midfavila> so, yeah, not great in practice
[2026-06-06T17:34:04Z] <shrub> oof
[2026-06-06T17:34:06Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2026-06-06T17:34:18Z] <shrub> i wish someone would make an actually good decent spec open portable device 
[2026-06-06T17:34:23Z] <midfavila> wellllllll
[2026-06-06T17:34:27Z] <shrub> that can run a nice mobile interface reasonably well
[2026-06-06T17:34:30Z] <midfavila> there's something i've been keeping my eye one
[2026-06-06T17:34:30Z] <shrub> with a nice keyboard
[2026-06-06T17:34:32Z] <midfavila> on*
[2026-06-06T17:34:35Z] <midfavila> that meets all of that
[2026-06-06T17:34:47Z] <midfavila> did you hear about the sqfmi beepberry a few years ago? 
[2026-06-06T17:34:55Z] <shrub> the mnt pocket reform is the closest thing ive seen but it's cash money and more laptop-size
[2026-06-06T17:35:21Z] <shrub> oh i tried to find a blackberry thing for my rpi a while back but had no luck
[2026-06-06T17:35:22Z] <midfavila> https://bbkb-community.github.io/computers/beepis/
[2026-06-06T17:35:26Z] <midfavila> check this out
[2026-06-06T17:35:45Z] <midfavila> it's a successor to the sqfmi machine being developed by a couple fans of the original 
[2026-06-06T17:36:05Z] <shrub> zero 2 w is like severely underpowered
[2026-06-06T17:36:11Z] <shrub> but this is pretty cool
[2026-06-06T17:36:32Z] <midfavila> well, so is the nezha d1 in the uconsole :P 
[2026-06-06T17:36:45Z] <midfavila> but when you're mostly doing stuff in the tty you don't need a lot of compute 
[2026-06-06T17:37:33Z] <shrub> https://bbkb-community.github.io/computers/hackberrypi/ this one looks pretty cool
[2026-06-06T17:37:47Z] <shrub> if i could stick a pi 4 in there i'd be perfectly fine
[2026-06-06T17:37:48Z] <midfavila> yeah but it's noncompliant with the licence
[2026-06-06T17:38:00Z] <midfavila> same with the colourberry fork 
[2026-06-06T17:38:05Z] <shrub> oh i just saw hardware: closed source
[2026-06-06T17:38:07Z] <shrub> boooooooooooooo
[2026-06-06T17:38:25Z] <midfavila> i already sent a very stern letter to the guy who closed the colourberry and the shop hosting him and the shop was like "uhhhhhh we're just a middleman" 
[2026-06-06T17:38:37Z] <midfavila> and the guy who's selling it is a shitbag and didn't even bother to respond 
[2026-06-06T17:38:45Z] <midfavila> and sqfmi is like basically dead it seems so????
[2026-06-06T17:39:15Z] <midfavila> and like it's really unfortunate because the colourberry is a legitimate improvement on the original 
[2026-06-06T17:39:51Z] <midfavila> apparently it fixes a few of the bugs related to the original display driver, plus it adds support for regular LCDs instead of sharp memory LCDs, and it comes with a really slick aluminium chassis
[2026-06-06T17:40:01Z] <midfavila> plus the micro usb was swapped out for usb c
[2026-06-06T17:40:18Z] <midfavila> but the guy just refuses to open things up 
[2026-06-06T17:40:48Z] <shrub> i never understood that
[2026-06-06T17:40:57Z] <shrub> some people just dont wanna be nice
[2026-06-06T17:41:07Z] <midfavila> as far as i'm concerned it's an attempt to enclose the commons 
[2026-06-06T17:41:18Z] <midfavila> no different than "open source" is to "free software"
[2026-06-06T17:44:43Z] <midfavila> also, yeah, mnt is really pricey qwq
[2026-06-06T17:44:50Z] <midfavila> i love my reform but i had to save for ages to get it
[2026-06-06T17:45:03Z] <shrub> lucky you
[2026-06-06T17:45:04Z] <midfavila> that won't stop me from buying an mnt station and using it as my desktop machine, but still 
[2026-06-06T17:45:15Z] <shrub> mnt station? since when?
[2026-06-06T17:45:21Z] <shrub> i saw they are working on a tablet
[2026-06-06T17:45:25Z] <midfavila> since they launched on crowdsupply
[2026-06-06T17:45:30Z] <midfavila> they're working on a ton of stuff rn
[2026-06-06T17:45:42Z] <shrub> oh this looks awesome
[2026-06-06T17:45:46Z] <midfavila> new CPU modules, desktop enclosure for the mobo, a tablet/handheld enclosure, and a new laptop 
[2026-06-06T17:45:52Z] <midfavila> at the very least
[2026-06-06T17:45:57Z] <midfavila> yeah MNT punches way above their weight
[2026-06-06T17:46:03Z] <midfavila> i have a lot of respect for them 
[2026-06-06T17:46:23Z] <midfavila> the fit, finish, and overall quality of the product is outstanding 
[2026-06-06T17:46:39Z] <midfavila> i just wish there was a riscv som
[2026-06-06T17:46:58Z] <shrub> riscv kinda... sucks 
[2026-06-06T17:47:02Z] <shrub> it will get better but
[2026-06-06T17:47:10Z] <midfavila> hmm. howso?
[2026-06-06T17:47:37Z] <shrub> i mean, i havent been hands on, but i just hear performance isn't up to scratch
[2026-06-06T17:47:49Z] <midfavila> idk a guy got the witcher 3 to run on it
[2026-06-06T17:48:18Z] <midfavila> through proton/wine... and dxvk... and box86 lol
[2026-06-06T17:48:22Z] <shrub> also being an open standard leads to the problem of nonstandard extensions
[2026-06-06T17:48:40Z] <shrub> which almost never ends well
[2026-06-06T17:48:45Z] <midfavila> yeah the nonstandard extensions thing is annoying 
[2026-06-06T17:48:54Z] <shrub> but better than a closed standard, i guess
[2026-06-06T17:48:58Z] <midfavila> but that's something that you can generally resolve as a consumer if there's sufficient choice
[2026-06-06T17:49:36Z] <midfavila> i just target the generic riscv isa anyway when i'm building stuff. it works fine on everything i've tested
[2026-06-06T17:49:59Z] <midfavila> i guess if you're looking to like, compile firefox and all of its dependencies from source on riscv, then it would suck lol
[2026-06-06T17:50:11Z] <shrub> i'm not looking to do that, ever
[2026-06-06T17:50:14Z] <shrub> on any isa
[2026-06-06T17:50:14Z] <midfavila> exactly
[2026-06-06T17:50:17Z] <midfavila> so it's a non issue
[2026-06-06T17:50:17Z] <midfavila> :P
[2026-06-06T17:50:37Z] <midfavila> the worst thing i've had to build on the nezha d1, which is complete trash, was a native gnu toolchain
[2026-06-06T17:50:45Z] <midfavila> and even then i just left it overnight when i went to bed 
[2026-06-06T17:51:01Z] <shrub> gnu toolchain is faster to compile than a non gnu toolchain
[2026-06-06T17:51:13Z] <midfavila> all of my usual software builds plenty fast. albeit most of it is like five lines of c each but still 
[2026-06-06T17:51:40Z] <midfavila> i just wish qbe and scc were good enough to build most of my software qwq
[2026-06-06T17:51:48Z] <midfavila> once i'm not a complete brainlet i really want to contribute 
[2026-06-06T17:52:03Z] <shrub> i did a llvm build on an ivybridge i5 and it took like 24 hours so im not compiling anything for the forseeable future
[2026-06-06T17:52:18Z] <shrub> it also takes the laptop like completely out of it while its compiling
[2026-06-06T17:52:22Z] <midfavila> yeah i don't think i have llvm in my setup at all
[2026-06-06T17:52:24Z] <midfavila> let me check
[2026-06-06T17:52:37Z] <shrub> i needed it for my mesa experiments
[2026-06-06T17:52:56Z] <midfavila> i don't have mesa either fortunately
[2026-06-06T17:53:00Z] <midfavila> mesa and llvm would be a pain
[2026-06-06T17:53:10Z] <midfavila> just checked, filed them under extra/
[2026-06-06T17:53:11Z] <shrub> i didnt have mesa, until today
[2026-06-06T17:53:20Z] <midfavila> also yeah building stuff on a laptop is painful
[2026-06-06T17:53:33Z] <midfavila> i have a desktop with a couple old piledrivers in it 
[2026-06-06T17:53:39Z] <shrub> on my slightly newer laptop it's fine
[2026-06-06T17:54:04Z] <shrub> in terms of small compilers, tcc is practical enough for a lot of stuff
[2026-06-06T17:54:12Z] <midfavila> yeah but it only supports x86
[2026-06-06T17:54:15Z] <shrub> although obviously the asm output is not ideal
[2026-06-06T17:54:17Z] <shrub> oh right
[2026-06-06T17:54:35Z] <midfavila> i managed to get tcc to build basically all of the software i use once, as an experiment in removing gnu software from my setup entirely 
[2026-06-06T17:54:39Z] <shrub> i hope cproc can get to a good point, i'd like a qbe based compiler as my system compiler
[2026-06-06T17:54:50Z] <midfavila> yeah cproc is cool but i'm more concerned about binutils 
[2026-06-06T17:54:55Z] <midfavila> hence scc
[2026-06-06T17:54:57Z] <shrub> you actually currently cant remove gnu software from you setup entirely
[2026-06-06T17:55:04Z] <midfavila> yeah i found that out
[2026-06-06T17:55:08Z] <shrub> unless you write a whole lot of makefiles
[2026-06-06T17:55:11Z] <midfavila> the worst part was actually gnu m4 and- yeah
[2026-06-06T17:55:13Z] <shrub> apart from that you can
[2026-06-06T17:55:18Z] <shrub> i did it for the most part
[2026-06-06T17:55:29Z] <shrub> i'm working on a gmake replacement
[2026-06-06T17:55:31Z] <shrub> as well
[2026-06-06T17:55:31Z] <midfavila> after my hundred and somethingth makefile i was like "fuck this"
[2026-06-06T17:55:37Z] <midfavila> have you seen uhhh
[2026-06-06T17:55:38Z] <midfavila> pmake?
[2026-06-06T17:55:41Z] <midfavila> on the topic
[2026-06-06T17:55:41Z] <shrub> pdpdmake?
[2026-06-06T17:55:45Z] <midfavila> yeah that was it
[2026-06-06T17:55:52Z] <shrub> yes, it's good
[2026-06-06T17:56:00Z] <shrub> for things that accept it that is
[2026-06-06T17:56:07Z] <midfavila> it really is :3
[2026-06-06T17:56:09Z] <midfavila> man 
[2026-06-06T17:56:10Z] <midfavila> like
[2026-06-06T17:56:16Z] <midfavila> i don't have an issue with gnu for the most part
[2026-06-06T17:56:18Z] <midfavila> aside from gnome
[2026-06-06T17:56:19Z] <midfavila> fuck gnome
[2026-06-06T17:56:23Z] <midfavila> because like
[2026-06-06T17:56:26Z] <midfavila> i get why they do what they do 
[2026-06-06T17:56:28Z] <midfavila> kind of
[2026-06-06T17:56:30Z] <shrub> i do most of their shit sucks
[2026-06-06T17:56:32Z] <midfavila> they have to compete with *everyone* 
[2026-06-06T17:56:43Z] <midfavila> in order to accomplish their mission statement
[2026-06-06T17:56:53Z] <midfavila> they have to have *all* the features and everything everyone expects 
[2026-06-06T17:57:03Z] <midfavila> and all of the infrastructure required to support it
[2026-06-06T17:57:05Z] <shrub> even the ones THEY made up!
[2026-06-06T17:57:19Z] <shrub> they arent great at infrastructure either
[2026-06-06T17:57:28Z] <midfavila> yeah i'm not saying it's good :P
[2026-06-06T17:57:29Z] <shrub> ftp.gnu is like the slowest thing ever lmao
[2026-06-06T17:57:32Z] <midfavila> it's eh 
[2026-06-06T17:57:39Z] <midfavila> ftp.gnu barely works half the time
[2026-06-06T17:57:46Z] <midfavila> i've accepted that i'm going to leech off of debian 
[2026-06-06T17:58:09Z] <midfavila> but yeah idk i feel as though the like
[2026-06-06T17:58:10Z] <midfavila> hrm
[2026-06-06T17:58:23Z] <midfavila> not the suckless crowd per se because suckless is an actual defined organisation
[2026-06-06T17:58:26Z] <midfavila> but the like
[2026-06-06T17:58:41Z] <midfavila> suckless and likeminded from an engineering standpoint crowd needs to work on its own ecosystem entirely
[2026-06-06T17:58:44Z] <midfavila> tbh
[2026-06-06T17:58:51Z] <midfavila> and just try to ignore mainstream tech as much as possible
[2026-06-06T17:58:58Z] <midfavila> because it just isn't worth dealing with it 
[2026-06-06T17:59:03Z] <shrub> i think that is what's being done 
[2026-06-06T17:59:20Z] <shrub> it's just not easy
[2026-06-06T17:59:22Z] <midfavila> yeah there's a lot of progress being made, it's just not that well coordinated atm it seems
[2026-06-06T17:59:26Z] <midfavila> and yeah it's definitely not easy 
[2026-06-06T17:59:41Z] <midfavila> it's a huge ask for what's ultimately like a couple hundred people max 
[2026-06-06T17:59:47Z] <midfavila> doing this in their spare time
[2026-06-06T18:00:06Z] <midfavila> once things irl are a little more stable for me i want to hack on this sort of stuff full time
[2026-06-06T18:00:06Z] <shrub> and for that size i think a lot has been achieved
[2026-06-06T18:00:10Z] <midfavila> yeah 100%
[2026-06-06T18:00:25Z] <shrub> i think a compiler is like really the only thing left
[2026-06-06T18:00:34Z] <midfavila> i mean i've basically managed to remove everything except gmake and the gnu toolchain from my system's core i think
[2026-06-06T18:00:37Z] <midfavila> and gnu m4
[2026-06-06T18:00:47Z] <shrub> what do you need gnu m4 for
[2026-06-06T18:00:51Z] <midfavila> autotools 
[2026-06-06T18:00:55Z] <midfavila> :\
[2026-06-06T18:00:58Z] <shrub> get tarballs
[2026-06-06T18:01:24Z] <midfavila> hmm. i seem to recall having issues with alternative m4s in the past, even with release tarballs
[2026-06-06T18:01:29Z] <midfavila> i'll give it another shot though
[2026-06-06T18:01:39Z] <midfavila> i was using quasar m4 for a while and i liked it 
[2026-06-06T18:01:43Z] <shrub> if you use pre-generated configures you shouldnt need an m4 at all
[2026-06-06T18:01:50Z] <shrub> quasar m4 is good
[2026-06-06T18:01:54Z] <midfavila> yeah i'm probably just forgetting something
[2026-06-06T18:02:02Z] <midfavila> i'm only just getting into tinkering with stuff again after like
[2026-06-06T18:02:12Z] <midfavila> 2.5ish years of doing basically zero tech stuff at all 
[2026-06-06T18:02:32Z] <shrub> i think that is better probably
[2026-06-06T18:02:36Z] <shrub> now i'm stuck doing this
[2026-06-06T18:02:51Z] <shrub> lmao
[2026-06-06T18:04:17Z] <midfavila> binutils, gcc, libtool, make, gmp, mpc, mpfr, diffutils, m4
[2026-06-06T18:04:31Z] <midfavila> that's the only gnu stuff i use atm 
[2026-06-06T18:04:50Z] <midfavila> at least under core/
[2026-06-06T18:05:09Z] <midfavila> base/ has some things that are inevitable until i develop replacements for some of the software i use
[2026-06-06T18:05:13Z] * midfavila coughs
[2026-06-06T18:05:15Z] <midfavila> libpurple
[2026-06-06T18:05:17Z] * midfavila coughs again
[2026-06-06T18:05:49Z] <midfavila> and i mean idk i wouldn't be too upset if i had a job in tech, at least atm. like, personally. i could use the extra money. but i wouldn't want to work in it for long
[2026-06-06T18:05:52Z] <midfavila> seems soul crushing
[2026-06-06T18:06:20Z] <shrub> i dont want to work in it ever i spend enough time staring into the abyss of a screen :p
[2026-06-06T18:06:52Z] <midfavila> honestly the real goal is to just hack on this stuff full time and request donations or w/e
[2026-06-06T18:07:14Z] <midfavila> i would love to be a little computer gremlin in the corner working on qbe and stuff
[2026-06-06T19:25:27Z] <fultilt> TIL that scc exists.
[2026-06-06T19:26:34Z] <midfavila> yeah :3
[2026-06-06T19:28:47Z] <fultilt> I've built LLVM on my OrangePi-RV2 and I don't think it took 24 hours, more like 1 or 2 IIRC.  That's not a fast device by any means.  But that was a while ago and my notes don't say how long it took.  Guess I'll fire it up while I go for a bike ride...
[2026-06-06T19:29:17Z] <midfavila> linux from scratch says it's 13SBU
[2026-06-06T19:29:32Z] <fultilt> What's "SBU"?
[2026-06-06T19:29:47Z] <midfavila> it's their method of estimating time to build a particular package
[2026-06-06T19:29:54Z] <midfavila> iirc it's defined as the time it takes to build binutils 
[2026-06-06T19:29:57Z] <midfavila> on your machine
[2026-06-06T19:30:48Z] <midfavila> so it should take roughly thirteen times as long as binutils to build llvm
[2026-06-06T19:35:44Z] <fultilt> Those 8 cores are now crunching away.  I'll report back if it succeeds.
[2026-06-06T19:36:11Z] * midfavila salutes
[2026-06-06T21:26:39Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: ive been using conty for some time now. wasnt aware of cell, but could be promising. less requirements if anything. which is somewhat annoying with conty tbqh..
[2026-06-06T21:27:14Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2026-06-06T21:27:23Z] <midfavila> well, i mean, we have gkiss still, right?
[2026-06-06T21:27:25Z] <sad_plan> also yes, my goal was running complex software like firefox, wine, retroarch and so on and so forth without polluting my host system. shrub can call it cheating all he wants though :p
[2026-06-06T21:27:36Z] <midfavila> if not, it shouldn't be hard to rebuild the current rootfs against glibc 
[2026-06-06T21:27:46Z] <midfavila> then you can just shove that under cell with whatever you need to run stuff 
[2026-06-06T21:27:59Z] <midfavila> i mean it's 100% cheating 
[2026-06-06T21:28:02Z] <midfavila> and gigacopium
[2026-06-06T21:28:05Z] <midfavila> and i don't care
[2026-06-06T21:28:06Z] <midfavila> = w=
[2026-06-06T21:28:15Z] <midfavila> still gonna do it
[2026-06-06T21:29:28Z] <midfavila> aaaaa i'm so closeto having all the basic software i need to use my distro...
[2026-06-06T21:29:39Z] <midfavila> only nineteen packages left to work on under base/ and sixty under x11/
[2026-06-06T21:30:18Z] <midfavila> i need to patch links2 to use libtls and rewrite some of the x11 stuff to use xfont instead of xft... 
[2026-06-06T21:35:47Z] <sad_plan> yeah, we do have gkiss, but I dont belive its maintained atm. atleast not last time i checked
[2026-06-06T21:37:09Z] <sad_plan> I would probably just fetch something like arch in this case, which is what conty does. mainly because the available software is so immense. but I suppose I could get something else working too for my usecase
[2026-06-06T21:37:54Z] <sad_plan> i dont care either. I was thinking I should remove webkit from my repo, and solely use something like conty, oor cell which you mentioned, for my browser needs C:
[2026-06-06T21:38:06Z] <midfavila> that's what i'm planning to do 
[2026-06-06T21:38:07Z] <sad_plan> thus making my builds waaaay less complex
[2026-06-06T21:38:15Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2026-06-06T21:38:21Z] <midfavila> hey btw
[2026-06-06T21:38:32Z] <midfavila> do you use surf or keep up with it?
[2026-06-06T21:38:32Z] <sad_plan> this also kinda means i can maybe get rid of kiss on my system. maybe
[2026-06-06T21:38:38Z] <midfavila> also 
[2026-06-06T21:38:40Z] <midfavila> unrelated
[2026-06-06T21:38:51Z] <midfavila> i was thinking of shamelessly stealing slackware's alien scripts
[2026-06-06T21:38:57Z] <sad_plan> I did occationally, but not after switching to wayland. development is going.. slow
[2026-06-06T21:39:06Z] <midfavila> which slackware uses to sort of piggy-back off of redhat and debian and stuff
[2026-06-06T21:39:21Z] <sad_plan> not familiar with this script tbh
[2026-06-06T21:39:48Z] <midfavila> it's kind of clunky and isn't exactly /clean/, but if the whole idea with cell or conty is to cram all that stuff in a box and forget about it, then that doesn't matter /too/ much
[2026-06-06T21:40:12Z] <midfavila> and yeah i saw people online talking about surf's development being slow
[2026-06-06T21:40:32Z] <midfavila> i don't usually find that to be an issue, but considering the web is the web and the last stable release was 2021... i mean, the heavy lifting is done with webkit, but still 
[2026-06-06T21:42:20Z] <sad_plan> I agree. its still cheating when I say my system is 100% statically linked, yet use firefox and eden to emulate switch games. technically im not lying, as all executables on my system is statically linked* :p
[2026-06-06T21:42:40Z] <sad_plan> yep, its just quing whos working on it, and I thinkg his busy with other stuff too
[2026-06-06T21:43:30Z] <sad_plan> my only complaint with surf is that they put a hard requirement on x11. I wish they use pure gtk instead, this way it worked on wayland ootb too
[2026-06-06T21:43:45Z] <midfavila> xchuds win again
[2026-06-06T21:43:45Z] <sad_plan> I get the whole *use dmenu and embedd shit*, but still
[2026-06-06T21:44:02Z] <sad_plan> eh... Im fine with luakit most of the time
[2026-06-06T21:44:08Z] <sad_plan> so im less bothered by it
[2026-06-06T21:44:18Z] <midfavila> i just want uzbl qwq
[2026-06-06T21:44:30Z] <sad_plan> that would be really cool though
[2026-06-06T21:44:59Z] <midfavila> but like i don't want uzbl enough to actually do the work to rewrite it to use webkit2gtk
[2026-06-06T21:45:08Z] <midfavila> because i would rather just not use the modern web >.>
[2026-06-06T21:45:44Z] <sad_plan> not using the modern web is a lot of work too. to find workarounds I mean
[2026-06-06T21:46:06Z] <midfavila> well, for most stuff there are frontends, or links suffices 
[2026-06-06T21:46:46Z] <sad_plan> sure, but that often still requires a modern browser. hell even invidous now requires JS, thanks to all the AI hammering their instances...
[2026-06-06T21:47:16Z] <midfavila> yeah :\
[2026-06-06T21:47:41Z] <midfavila> oh
[2026-06-06T21:47:47Z] <midfavila> i don't know if i mentioned it
[2026-06-06T21:47:47Z] <midfavila> but
[2026-06-06T21:48:15Z] <midfavila> i found a writeup on someone's blog where they provide a proof of concept to generate tokens for that stupid fucking anubis software locally
[2026-06-06T21:48:21Z] <midfavila> one sec let me look for it
[2026-06-06T21:48:28Z] * midfavila rifles through their bookmarks...
[2026-06-06T21:48:45Z] <sad_plan> hm, so basically you can skip the anubis check then..
[2026-06-06T21:49:35Z] <midfavila> kinda yeah
[2026-06-06T21:49:44Z] <sad_plan> neat
[2026-06-06T21:49:47Z] <midfavila> you just end up doing the work locally instead of in-browser
[2026-06-06T21:50:29Z] <midfavila> so if you had a browser that could support hooks, and you could uniquely identify anubis etcetera, then you could just call a local utility to generate a proof of work token and pass it back 
[2026-06-06T21:50:38Z] <midfavila> i bet eww could do that actuall
[2026-06-06T21:50:40Z] <midfavila> actually*
[2026-06-06T21:51:16Z] <sad_plan> someone probably made greasemonkey or tampermonkey script for this. not sure whcih one was still maintained at the top of my head
[2026-06-06T21:52:39Z] <midfavila> https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/anubis.html#workarounds
[2026-06-06T21:52:53Z] <midfavila> if you can run tampermonkey or greasemonkey you're already using a browser that supports JS 
[2026-06-06T21:53:00Z] <midfavila> so there's no point
[2026-06-06T21:54:24Z] <midfavila> but yeah i would imagine that if you call that program using the challenge cookie that links receives, and then you could insert the proof of work cookie, then it would work just fine re: accessing invidious 
[2026-06-06T21:54:29Z] <midfavila> same with anything else that uses anubis
[2026-06-06T21:59:54Z] <sad_plan> I does miss the point in this case if you use that, yeah.
[2026-06-06T22:00:19Z] <sad_plan> nice to see someone found some way to get around this though.for those who wanna avoid the web in more ways