[2026-06-07T01:51:58Z] <fultilt> So... my memory was way off.  LLVM took 6.2 hours to compile on the OrangePi RV2 (gcc -Os).
[2026-06-07T02:50:13Z] <kris_> less than I'd expect
[2026-06-07T02:57:41Z] <fultilt> It does help to have more cores.
[2026-06-07T11:58:45Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: since we were talking about webkit stuff before, do you have any experience fiddling with wpewebkit instead of webkitgtk?
[2026-06-07T12:06:41Z] <midfavila> with webkit2 being dumped in favour of webkit-6, *apparently*, and that having a hard dependency on gtk4, i was looking into alternatives 
[2026-06-07T12:07:13Z] <midfavila> wpewebkit can apparently run as an x client or wayland... i'm assuming there's a different term, but "client", without depending on a specific toolkit
[2026-06-07T12:42:26Z] <sad_plan> none at all. I do belive ive heard of it, but never looked into it myself
[2026-06-07T12:44:08Z] <sad_plan> im guessing what you mean is wpewebkit is a gtk "app", same as luakit etc, which is just using gtk, and not much else. so theres no dependency initally on x11 or wayland
[2026-06-07T12:44:21Z] <sad_plan> but that might be something worth looking into some time I suppose
[2026-06-07T12:45:24Z] <midfavila> no, it doesn't use gtk at all afaik
[2026-06-07T12:45:39Z] <sad_plan> oh?
[2026-06-07T12:45:40Z] <midfavila> it draws directly to an X window using xcb 
[2026-06-07T12:45:46Z] <midfavila> it seems
[2026-06-07T12:46:03Z] <midfavila> i'm building webwebkit rn as well as the reference browser cog
[2026-06-07T12:46:07Z] <midfavila> honestly cog seems pretty neat
[2026-06-07T12:46:21Z] <midfavila> doesn't have a bunch of visual clutter, it's just a webkit view
[2026-06-07T12:46:36Z] <midfavila> and apparently it uses a dbus-based control program to set the current uri and stuff? 
[2026-06-07T12:46:45Z] <midfavila> i doubt it would be hard to patch it to swap that out for a fifo 
[2026-06-07T12:47:39Z] <sad_plan> arch linux appearently has a port of it, and theres no dependency on gtk in the list anyway. so looks like youre right.
[2026-06-07T12:47:56Z] <midfavila> ye
[2026-06-07T12:49:42Z] <sad_plan> ironically, in aur, cog requires gtk4 though. atleast its mentioned in the list. looking at the pkgbuild file, gtk4 is listed under platforms, so maybe we can omit that?
[2026-06-07T12:49:51Z] <midfavila> yeah there are like
[2026-06-07T12:49:54Z] <midfavila> backends
[2026-06-07T12:49:56Z] <midfavila> so
[2026-06-07T12:49:57Z] <sad_plan> yah
[2026-06-07T12:50:03Z] <midfavila> just from what i've gleaned from the build process
[2026-06-07T12:50:12Z] <midfavila> you can target gtk 
[2026-06-07T12:50:13Z] <midfavila> or xcb
[2026-06-07T12:50:22Z] <midfavila> or DRM etc
[2026-06-07T12:50:39Z] <midfavila> and i'm building just the plain wpe backend atm which afaik is for xcb
[2026-06-07T12:52:03Z] <sad_plan> nice
[2026-06-07T12:52:08Z] <midfavila> cloc reports a linecount of ~=13k for cog
[2026-06-07T12:52:27Z] <midfavila> of, apparently, regular C
[2026-06-07T12:52:42Z] <midfavila> 12.4k lines of C and 549 in header files
[2026-06-07T12:53:07Z] <midfavila> not bad considering that would also include the rendering code and stuff, i think
[2026-06-07T12:53:33Z] <sad_plan> thats actually not that bad at all
[2026-06-07T12:53:47Z] <midfavila> looking at it now
[2026-06-07T12:53:57Z] <midfavila> platform/* is ~-9k lines of C
[2026-06-07T12:54:02Z] <midfavila> and the x11 code is about 800
[2026-06-07T12:54:53Z] <sad_plan> not too shabby at all
[2026-06-07T12:55:12Z] <sad_plan> now if only cog would build on aur too, so I can see what this is about, that would also be nice
[2026-06-07T12:55:14Z] <midfavila> so yeah quick maths, 4.8k lines of C for the cog browser itself and its x11 backend
[2026-06-07T12:55:50Z] <midfavila> i think debian has a binary package 
[2026-06-07T12:55:54Z] <midfavila> maybe you could spin it up in a vm 
[2026-06-07T12:57:28Z] <sad_plan> maybe I can get it to build using conty instead. seeing as thats pure arch, and not cachyos
[2026-06-07T12:57:38Z] <midfavila> shit that's right
[2026-06-07T12:57:44Z] <midfavila> that would be a good test of conty too 
[2026-06-07T13:01:16Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2026-06-07T13:12:13Z] <sad_plan> yeah no, conty just loops when trying to build cog, because it fails lol
[2026-06-07T13:14:29Z] <midfavila> damn
[2026-06-07T13:14:41Z] <midfavila> yeah i don't trust the aur tbh
[2026-06-07T13:15:29Z] <sad_plan> you have every right to :p
[2026-06-07T13:16:09Z] <sad_plan> I try to only use it for a few things, thats not available in the official repos. luckily, cachyos includes more of these things than what arch does. 
[2026-06-07T16:12:46Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: we have liftoff
[2026-06-07T16:12:49Z] <midfavila> pics soon 
[2026-06-07T16:13:13Z] <midfavila> it also runs nicely on the framebuffer, although there doesn't seem to be any input out of the box, which isn't /ideal/
[2026-06-07T16:13:24Z] <midfavila> it's also surprisingly fast
[2026-06-07T16:13:40Z] <midfavila> i'm going to try and get something on invidious to play under x11...
[2026-06-07T17:11:07Z] <midfavila> okay
[2026-06-07T17:11:08Z] <midfavila> so
[2026-06-07T17:11:13Z] <midfavila> initial results:
[2026-06-07T17:11:14Z] <midfavila> very promising
[2026-06-07T17:11:23Z] <midfavila> i was able to get it to run under both a tty and under x11 
[2026-06-07T17:11:35Z] <midfavila> and it was able to play back video and audio on both invidious and youtube proper
[2026-06-07T17:11:57Z] <midfavila> it's a little annoying to control atm because since it doesn't actually take advantage of a widget toolkit there's nothing to provide popup menus 
[2026-06-07T17:12:42Z] <midfavila> if there was a mechanism to read out data and set the contents of a menu using cogctl or some other mechanism then you could use an external tool like dmenu or xmenu for that
[2026-06-07T17:13:12Z] <midfavila> and under the tty it doesn't have any mouse support which is expected 
[2026-06-07T17:13:30Z] <midfavila> but you can navigate via keyboard still
[2026-06-07T17:13:36Z] <midfavila> however,
[2026-06-07T17:13:40Z] <midfavila> and this is a *big* however
[2026-06-07T17:14:00Z] <midfavila> and this could be a result of my slackware machine being a mishmash of 64 and 32 bit libraries because hfgjishfis
[2026-06-07T17:14:06Z] <midfavila> but if it's not it's a serious issue 
[2026-06-07T17:14:25Z] <midfavila> there seems to be calls to free() when there shouldn't be
[2026-06-07T17:14:46Z] <midfavila> and between this and some other issues it's not uncommon to get SIGSEGV
[2026-06-07T17:15:07Z] <midfavila> it's *also*, for some reason, crashing so fucking hard that, at least under X, it freezes my entire machine
[2026-06-07T17:15:13Z] <midfavila> so
[2026-06-07T17:15:15Z] <midfavila> not great
[2026-06-07T17:15:37Z] <midfavila> but if those two issues could be resolved then cog and wpewebkit could be very viable 
[2026-06-07T17:15:53Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: in case you wanted a ping about this stuff
[2026-06-07T17:16:25Z] <midfavila> once i have my setup installed and configured i'll give this another go 
[2026-06-07T17:16:39Z] <midfavila> bc it's very possible that it's the fault of my slackware install being a mangled mess
[2026-06-07T17:16:55Z] <midfavila> oh
[2026-06-07T17:16:55Z] <midfavila> also
[2026-06-07T17:16:58Z] <midfavila> in terms of performance
[2026-06-07T17:17:09Z] <midfavila> i didn't see any noticeable cpu load 
[2026-06-07T17:17:19Z] <midfavila> even when managing multimedia (when it *didn't* crash)
[2026-06-07T17:17:35Z] <midfavila> and even when playing video back on the youtube website proper it only used a couple hundred meg at most
[2026-06-07T17:38:38Z] <sad_plan> nice to see that it works. does it have some kind of gui? ill see if I cant look at it later, maybe I can get it to work on my end aswell
[2026-06-07T17:40:45Z] <midfavila> well, i mean, not really
[2026-06-07T17:40:52Z] <midfavila> like, you get a window that displays the web page
[2026-06-07T17:40:54Z] <midfavila> and that's it
[2026-06-07T17:41:00Z] <midfavila> zero UI elements 
[2026-06-07T17:41:09Z] <midfavila> it's controlled using a program called cogctl 
[2026-06-07T17:50:07Z] <sad_plan> ah, i was going to ask about that too, as I read something about the lack of UI in the browser. does this mean you cant go back and forth? copy links.. i mean, just basic stuff..
[2026-06-07T17:50:22Z] <midfavila> you can navigate history 
[2026-06-07T17:50:37Z] <midfavila> cogctl next and previous 
[2026-06-07T17:51:05Z] <midfavila> as for copying links, i didn't find a way of doing that in my very brief time with cog, because there's, in general, no way to highlight text
[2026-06-07T17:51:11Z] <midfavila> this is of course another pretty notable limitation 
[2026-06-07T17:51:42Z] <midfavila> that said, i'm *sure* it could be implemented 
[2026-06-07T18:16:48Z] <sad_plan> I see. so you can view websites with it. but thats basically the gist of it. so to speak lol
[2026-06-07T18:17:00Z] <midfavila> pretty much