[2026-06-19T03:53:47Z] <definitelynotkri> midfavila: yeah i peek in occasionally
[2026-06-19T03:53:59Z] <definitelynotkri> those look spooky
[2026-06-19T03:54:08Z] <definitelynotkri> the emoped thing
[2026-06-19T08:52:08Z] <phoebos> mid: https://git.bvnf.space/xmhtml/files.html
[2026-06-19T08:52:24Z] <phoebos> yeah the html rendering is decent
[2026-06-19T08:52:59Z] <phoebos> needs slightly more work than i did to get navigation working
[2026-06-19T08:53:11Z] <phoebos> oh, and to actually download over HTTP
[2026-06-19T09:04:49Z] <phoebos> also worth mentioning http://www.litehtml.com/
[2026-06-19T10:10:52Z] <midfavila> better idea than using athena
[2026-06-19T10:11:05Z] <midfavila> what if i just used wily as a frontend for everything
[2026-06-19T10:11:25Z] <midfavila> one of the *other* things i've been thinking about is a small note in wily's source tree talking about how originally wily didn't manage its own windows
[2026-06-19T10:11:48Z] <midfavila> but early in development it was decided that the only way to adequately handle them was for wily to be its own window manager
[2026-06-19T10:12:25Z] <midfavila> there's a note that they considered writing a separate window manager for wily, but the idea was abandoned because it was too complex or ambitious or something
[2026-06-19T10:12:46Z] <midfavila> and it goes on to encourage future readers to experiment with the idea if technology in that regard improved enough to make it viable
[2026-06-19T10:13:01Z] <midfavila> i have to wonder if x11fs and tofu could do such a thing 
[2026-06-19T10:13:20Z] <midfavila> it would be really satisfying to have wily integrated with tofu... 
[2026-06-19T10:13:37Z] <midfavila> but i love my chunky stupid little athena widgets... 
[2026-06-19T10:13:40Z] <midfavila> hmghnmghmgnmh...
[2026-06-19T10:20:58Z] <midfavila> that would get me off of emacs, too... 
[2026-06-19T10:31:22Z] <midfavila> could also write GUI stuff using wily's libXg, too...........
[2026-06-19T10:31:42Z] <midfavila> that would be really cool...
[2026-06-19T13:10:37Z] <midfavila> https://xed.sourceforge.net/
[2026-06-19T13:10:39Z] <midfavila> peak
[2026-06-19T13:16:18Z] <midfavila> honestly all i really want is acme's like, reprogrammable UI, i think. the ability to run commands just by clicking on a label and having it update the state of the text buffer in response is really cool. without using external GUI toolkits or running in a terminal, i mean
[2026-06-19T13:20:52Z] <midfavila> maybe i'll just hack on xed 
[2026-06-19T13:50:19Z] <k0ga> I use acme a lot
[2026-06-19T14:07:32Z] <midfavila> k0ga it's real neat
[2026-06-19T14:07:35Z] <midfavila> i was playing with wily earlier
[2026-06-19T14:07:50Z] <midfavila> i really appreciate it from a design standpoint but UX-wise it's just not for me 
[2026-06-19T14:08:11Z] <midfavila> like with all the mouse stuff
[2026-06-19T14:08:25Z] <midfavila> i'm sure it's probably a matter of just adjusting but ehhh 
[2026-06-19T14:08:43Z] <midfavila> *aside* from the mouse stuff acme is super fucking cool 
[2026-06-19T14:08:57Z] <midfavila> it reminds me of how emacs can act as a harness to any text-based program you'd like 
[2026-06-19T14:09:20Z] <midfavila> just give me *that* but standalone and i'd be cheesed 
[2026-06-19T14:13:04Z] <midfavila> i've been thinking lately about the use of xterm and other tools in a graphical environment and it kind of bothers me. a simple athena frontend is lighter-weight than any of that and can present much more information in much less space, and in a more flexible manner, than a terminal 
[2026-06-19T14:13:32Z] <midfavila> so in a way GUIs can be thought of as more efficient given similar resources than terminals, assuming that the infrastructure to support the display subsystem is already there
[2026-06-19T14:14:14Z] <midfavila> that's not to say that /text/ interfaces don't have certain things they're better at - but a /text/ interface isn't necessarily a /terminal/
[2026-06-19T14:15:02Z] <midfavila> and while it's really cool to get terminals to do all kinds of stuff that you would normally do in a GUI under X, it's ultimately not necessary
[2026-06-19T14:15:59Z] <midfavila> why open xterm (or even rxvt or st) just to, idk, use an ncurses program that replicates a GUI anyway? assuming there's an option that uses a lightweight toolkit, it makes more sense to use that, all other things being equal 
[2026-06-19T14:16:33Z] <midfavila> of course, in the /absence/ of the infrastructure to support a display subsystem, ncurses makes perfect sense. all of this is really just a long way of saying that interfaces and engines need to be separated more often
[2026-06-19T14:17:29Z] <midfavila> everything should just run as a daemon and expose its internal state via a virtual fs
[2026-06-19T14:17:37Z] <midfavila> fgrehijwsahgir
[2026-06-19T15:01:51Z] <midfavila> there are some really great scripts in wmutils' contrib... think i'm going to try and convert some of them to use tofu today 
[2026-06-19T15:01:56Z] <midfavila> at least the tiler
[2026-06-19T16:05:27Z] <midfavila> https://web.archive.org/web/20220122233040/https://git.sr.ht/~hauleth/dotfiles/tree/master/item/vim/.config/nvim/fnl/startup.fnl
[2026-06-19T16:05:35Z] <midfavila> kris i know ur lurking look at this 
[2026-06-19T16:05:38Z] <midfavila> vim config in lisp 
[2026-06-19T16:32:22Z] <Ozymandias42> That's wild 
[2026-06-19T16:49:47Z] <midfavila> okay there we go
[2026-06-19T16:50:01Z] <midfavila> prototype port of z3bra's wmutils tiling.sh to use x11fs is complete
[2026-06-19T16:50:26Z] <midfavila> i'm unreasonably giddy about this lmao
[2026-06-19T16:50:41Z] <midfavila> holy fuck i'm computing aaaaaaaaa
[2026-06-19T16:50:46Z] <midfavila> amazin
[2026-06-19T16:51:20Z] <midfavila> xed doesn't like being manipulated like this though :cc
[2026-06-19T16:57:49Z] <midfavila> cool and adding $WM/functions/tile.sh to $WM/hooks/FOCUS automatically retiles stuff 
[2026-06-19T16:57:52Z] <midfavila> that's so nifty 
[2026-06-19T17:07:31Z] <sad_plan> having a scriptable wm is such a god send imo
[2026-06-19T17:26:26Z] <saravia> A @kisslinux user looking to delete blobs?
[2026-06-19T17:27:32Z] <sad_plan> I doubt anyone here *wants* blobs :p
[2026-06-19T17:28:03Z] <sad_plan> but some of us are less compromising than others when it comes to the inclusion of blobs :p
[2026-06-19T17:39:29Z] <saravia> and the projects generated with *llm* are garbage?
[2026-06-19T18:19:07Z] <sad_plan> yes
[2026-06-19T18:19:20Z] <sad_plan> if you wanna code, learn to code, and code yourself
[2026-06-19T19:22:57Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: have a look here; https://github.com/rpmohn/a4
[2026-06-19T19:23:10Z] <sad_plan> rewrite of dvtm, but doesnt require curses
[2026-06-19T20:08:14Z] <midfavila> very neat
[2026-06-19T20:08:48Z] <midfavila> i still prefer mtm and dtach but more multiplexers is good
[2026-06-19T20:09:05Z] <midfavila> i need to figure out a way to get mtm to build with nbsd curses tho...
[2026-06-19T20:09:16Z] <midfavila> it uses literally one ncurses function that isn't standard 
[2026-06-19T20:09:22Z] <midfavila> the problem is that it's a really important one
[2026-06-19T21:24:16Z] <sad_plan> ive used dtach in the past. its  neat concept, if anything. I didnt really get a feel for it, but i mightve just not used it correctly. maybe ill revisit it.
[2026-06-19T21:24:40Z] <sad_plan> although, the only thin I do detach, is my tmux session on the pubnix I use
[2026-06-19T21:30:53Z] <midfavila> i use dtach because mtm doesn't have its own session management 
[2026-06-19T21:31:03Z] <midfavila> tmux has C-b d
[2026-06-19T21:32:26Z] <sad_plan> right