[2026-07-12T01:34:21Z] <dery> uh interesting, kiss' cache logic doesn't work with relative paths
[2026-07-12T01:34:59Z] <dery> it creates the proc directories in the right place, but then changes the current directory
[2026-07-12T01:36:09Z] <dery> XDG_CACHE_HOME has to be absolute
[2026-07-12T04:13:04Z] <dery> welp https://codeberg.org/kiss-community/kiss/archive/6.2.0.tar.gz changed b3sum on my side
[2026-07-12T04:15:51Z] <dery> old (from core repo): 87c25adca8bdc86619a2b520d31dea9c9bd5ec1dde794b496e80cbccdf3db2ba56
[2026-07-12T04:15:57Z] <dery> new: 075e2e42eae192dead807436eb7506f69a35991b7fa589390e71a93cf29ad8e2
[2026-07-12T04:24:06Z] <dery> an older cache I had saved has an even different sum
[2026-07-12T04:24:07Z] <dery> wut?
[2026-07-12T05:41:23Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/mikaku/FiwixOS/issues/2
[2026-07-12T05:41:25Z] <midfavila> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[2026-07-12T05:41:38Z] <midfavila> first of all, neat i386 linux clone
[2026-07-12T05:41:40Z] <midfavila> second of all 
[2026-07-12T05:41:43Z] <midfavila> they got MGR running!!!
[2026-07-12T05:48:58Z] <midfavila> https://www.ninakalinina.com/notes/mgr/
[2026-07-12T06:14:52Z] <sad_plan> dery: I was going to say i have that variable as relative, but I dont. lol. wierd that the b3sum changed though
[2026-07-12T06:45:37Z] <dery> heads up: I'm inevitably catching on the edge cases of my patch and will keep hacking at it for a while
[2026-07-12T06:46:13Z] <dery> right now the main blocker is somehow figuring out how to distinguish branch refs so that it can gracefully attempt a "refresh"
[2026-07-12T06:46:25Z] <dery> (that is, pointing to the latest commit)
[2026-07-12T06:46:58Z] <dery> the hard part is also somehow distinguishing hashes so that it can stop *any* round-trip in that case as it's guaranteed that the commit is the right one if it's there
[2026-07-12T06:49:49Z] <sad_plan> wait, dery do you not sleep? I just looked at the times you wrote those previous messages lol
[2026-07-12T06:50:16Z] <sad_plan> does it need that, if all it does is clone if theres internet?
[2026-07-12T07:10:04Z] <Guest26> midfavila: Why do you prefer MBR over GPT? Simplicity (kiss)?
[2026-07-12T07:16:54Z] <midfavila> Guest26 because i'm spiritually 65 years old and i refuse to learn all this extra shit just to boot my computer 
[2026-07-12T07:17:08Z] <midfavila> if you wanted more than four partitions we had a TOOL for that, it was called LOGICAL partitions
[2026-07-12T07:39:32Z] <midfavila> https://youtu.be/4rHqWntLnZw
[2026-07-12T07:40:27Z] <midfavila> eva if you're out there i need to know what you think of this
[2026-07-12T07:46:33Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: im on gpt, and I still only have 4 partitions
[2026-07-12T07:46:58Z] <sad_plan> theres also no need for more than 4 partitions imo, unless you dualboot or some shit
[2026-07-12T07:47:12Z] <midfavila> just install kiss
[2026-07-12T07:47:16Z] <midfavila> then you don't need to dual boot
[2026-07-12T07:47:21Z] <midfavila> because you have the strongest linux distro
[2026-07-12T07:49:21Z] <sad_plan> says the man who doesnt even run kiss lol. but yes, kiss is all you need really
[2026-07-12T07:50:55Z] <midfavila> i use slackware begrudgingly 
[2026-07-12T07:53:00Z] <sad_plan> my point exacly. but im not on kiss either really. im on oasis, or my fork of it. so maybe im being hypocritical here :P
[2026-07-12T07:55:08Z] <midfavila> tbf i'll probably not install kiss *proper* on my own machines in the future 
[2026-07-12T07:55:16Z] <midfavila> mostly because i have my own package set and stuff now
[2026-07-12T07:55:28Z] <midfavila> but i'll still be working in/on/around/etc kiss 
[2026-07-12T07:56:03Z] <midfavila> still need to write a little script to convert between my format and upstream's 
[2026-07-12T07:57:12Z] <sad_plan> well sure. ill be switching to rcpm in the future, once it gets to a stage where I can confidently use it for any packages that I couldnt port to oasis for some reason
[2026-07-12T07:57:29Z] <sad_plan> by format, you mean in the sense that you use pm?
[2026-07-12T07:57:58Z] <midfavila> nawh pm doesn't have a format for packages in the kiss sense
[2026-07-12T07:58:08Z] <midfavila> pack(5) is only a file format for ready-to-install packages
[2026-07-12T07:58:23Z] <midfavila> pm doesn't have anything to do with actually building packs
[2026-07-12T07:58:33Z] <midfavila> so i just have a stripped-down kiss format atm 
[2026-07-12T07:58:40Z] <midfavila> for like, build scripts, depends files, etc
[2026-07-12T07:59:02Z] <midfavila> converting those build scripts and depends and such is what i'd be doing 
[2026-07-12T07:59:45Z] <midfavila> i don't see any need to handle more than what kiss does and tbh with a tiny bit of effort i could probably just modify my shell functions to use regular old kiss scripts
[2026-07-12T08:01:04Z] <sad_plan> oh, I see
[2026-07-12T13:42:50Z] <dery> sad_plan: ehhh, I inevitably get stuck on some stupid thing and do it until I slip into a coma xD
[2026-07-12T14:15:04Z] <dery> actually I've slept very little this morning surprisingly
[2026-07-12T14:15:22Z] <dery> usually I sleep an atrocious amount of time
[2026-07-12T14:21:18Z] <sad_plan> I guessed as much, seeing as you were writing around 3 in the night, then around 6, and so on lol :P
[2026-07-12T14:25:16Z] <dery> xD
[2026-07-12T14:25:42Z] <dery> btw it's not cloning all the time, and it wouldn't make sense to do
[2026-07-12T14:26:13Z] <dery> you can get *very* efficient thanks to incremental downloads, despite DEFLATE
[2026-07-12T14:26:44Z] <dery> also it makes sense that when you point to a hash, that it can completely forgo even checking the internet because the thing it's downloaded
[2026-07-12T14:27:13Z] <dery> it turns the majority of git packages downloads into istantaneous checks 
[2026-07-12T14:27:25Z] <dery> that said I didn't consider the less "specific" targets, that is (mainly) branches
[2026-07-12T14:27:42Z] <dery> tags can technically change but it's fine to cache them, I guess
[2026-07-12T14:28:09Z] <dery> branches tho I need to somehow distinguish and always try to fetch
[2026-07-12T14:28:44Z] <dery> oops
[2026-07-12T14:28:51Z] <dery> here I am again
[2026-07-12T15:32:46Z] <sad_plan> ive noticed that too, that instead of pinning to a certain commit, either via git+url, or just use the tarball (which I find supperior anyway), they just fetch whatever is the latest. not even aur does this
[2026-07-12T15:33:03Z] <sad_plan> this also makes packages prone to breakage
[2026-07-12T15:33:42Z] <sad_plan> which might be considered to be expected, but im not sure I wanna agree on that. a package just build. if it doesnt, you done goofed
[2026-07-12T15:40:02Z] <dery> you're sure sad_plan?
[2026-07-12T15:40:11Z] <dery> I'm pretty sure that the AUR stuff has git packages that point to the latest commit always
[2026-07-12T15:40:31Z] <dery> yea it reports a hash but that's because it has a version fetcher method IIRC
[2026-07-12T15:40:55Z] <dery> that said I agree that pointing to a branch is finnicky
[2026-07-12T15:41:19Z] <dery> it gets handy sometimes, like having living branches with a WIP patch ;)
[2026-07-12T15:42:56Z] <sad_plan> they do point to latest, but they do a git checkout for a certain commit
[2026-07-12T15:44:24Z] <sad_plan> which makes things more stable, if in the case where a commit is certain to cause breakage, maintainers can choose to hold of untill it gets fixed. this avoids bugreports about package not building. its just a much better practice imo
[2026-07-12T15:53:39Z] <dery> sorry I hope I don't sound rude but it doesn't seem like it? https://aur.archlinux.org/cgit/aur.git/tree/PKGBUILD?h=jellyfin-desktop-git
[2026-07-12T15:53:46Z] <dery> maybe some packages do a checkout while some yolo it
[2026-07-12T15:56:00Z] <sad_plan> maybe youre right
[2026-07-12T15:56:02Z] * sad_plan shrugs
[2026-07-12T15:56:13Z] <sad_plan> aslong as it works, it works
[2026-07-12T15:57:23Z] <sad_plan> ffs, rc can be such a turd a times. 
[2026-07-12T15:58:34Z] <sad_plan> ive had a lot of issues with rcpm when running if statements. either it just does the check, and if it doesnt return 0, then it goes into the if not statement. but in a lot of cases, it just exists after checking the if not statement. 
[2026-07-12T15:58:36Z] <midfavila> did i hear someone complaining about plan 9 software
[2026-07-12T15:58:38Z] <midfavila> :gun:
[2026-07-12T15:58:41Z] <sad_plan> yes
[2026-07-12T15:58:51Z] <midfavila> complaining is windoze agitprop and will not be tolerated
[2026-07-12T15:58:55Z] <midfavila> you will use acme and you will enjoy it
[2026-07-12T15:58:59Z] <sad_plan> you sure did. and I even use rc from 9front too
[2026-07-12T15:59:01Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2026-07-12T15:59:29Z] <sad_plan> I wanna try acme, but ive not gotten around it. and most ports require x11. i know of a port for swc, but it reuires p9p, which I dont really like
[2026-07-12T15:59:49Z] <midfavila> yeah it bugs me too 
[2026-07-12T15:59:55Z] <midfavila> >minimalist software
[2026-07-12T16:00:01Z] <sad_plan> yep
[2026-07-12T16:00:02Z] <midfavila> >just needs an entire OS to be installed to run it
[2026-07-12T16:00:12Z] <midfavila> like i get it 
[2026-07-12T16:00:13Z] <midfavila> but still 
[2026-07-12T16:00:16Z] <midfavila> groce
[2026-07-12T16:01:23Z] <sad_plan> ikr
[2026-07-12T16:01:31Z] <sad_plan> shrub900: fix your shit
[2026-07-12T16:01:51Z] <midfavila> uh oh
[2026-07-12T16:01:55Z] <midfavila> nerd fight nerd fight nerd fight
[2026-07-12T16:02:02Z] <sad_plan> i wanna try acme, but I dont p9p
[2026-07-12T16:02:04Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2026-07-12T16:02:13Z] <sad_plan> s/dont/dont want/
[2026-07-12T16:02:55Z] <midfavila> monkey's paw curls
[2026-07-12T16:03:00Z] <midfavila> you only have access to wily
[2026-07-12T16:04:40Z] <shrub900> sad_plan: p9p sucks, dont use acme, dont use my thing, just use a vi like, its not worth it, p9p is genuinely so bad, its horrible, its the bane of my existence, i never wanna use it again, when i want to use acme ill boot up 9front
[2026-07-12T16:05:30Z] <shrub900> p9p is the embodiment of a shitty hack that went too far
[2026-07-12T16:05:46Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: that too requires x11. only port that ive found that does work with wayland is shrubs port
[2026-07-12T16:06:02Z] <midfavila> hence monkey's paw
[2026-07-12T16:06:07Z] <sad_plan> shrub900: oh lol. why did you even bother with it if its so terrible?
[2026-07-12T16:06:26Z] <shrub900> sad_plan: you think its cool and the more you use it the more you want to blow your brains out
[2026-07-12T16:06:43Z] <shrub900> its a fun novelty at best and a horrific amalgamtion of unholy compatibility at it's worse
[2026-07-12T16:06:54Z] <sad_plan> lol. just use vis. its decent. although I kno mid doesnt agree with me on that :P
[2026-07-12T16:07:06Z] <midfavila> that's because vi is shit 
[2026-07-12T16:07:07Z] <shrub900> yep thats what im doing right now
[2026-07-12T16:07:08Z] <midfavila> >.>
[2026-07-12T16:07:29Z] <midfavila> copium the software 
[2026-07-12T16:07:46Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: then id be happy to tell you that learnin ed is on my todo list. ive even made list of things to work through. its actually good for me
[2026-07-12T16:07:53Z] <shrub900> what do you use? emacs? lmao
[2026-07-12T16:07:56Z] <midfavila> ed
[2026-07-12T16:08:06Z] <shrub900> i used ed for two weeks
[2026-07-12T16:08:09Z] <shrub900> i hated it
[2026-07-12T16:08:17Z] <midfavila> ed is comfy
[2026-07-12T16:08:18Z] <midfavila> :33
[2026-07-12T16:08:24Z] <shrub900> i mostly stick with plain vi from busybox but im trying vis 
[2026-07-12T16:08:53Z] <sad_plan> I could see myself using ed for very small stuff. like a couple of lines or something. for anything bigger, id rather use vis
[2026-07-12T16:09:22Z] <sad_plan> ive been using vis for some years now, and I like it way better than I did with vim
[2026-07-12T16:09:27Z] <sad_plan> and yeah, vim sucks
[2026-07-12T16:09:40Z] <midfavila> if i'm doing super huge stuff then i would probably use a mini-emacs 
[2026-07-12T16:09:58Z] <shrub900> heard good things about mg
[2026-07-12T16:10:05Z] <midfavila> gnumacs sits on the workstation and doesn't get touched unless i strictly need it
[2026-07-12T16:14:54Z] <midfavila> ughhhhhhhhhhhh i have to go to work 
[2026-07-12T16:15:54Z] <shrub900> unemployed life stays winning
[2026-07-12T16:16:02Z] <midfavila> fr
[2026-07-12T16:16:42Z] <sad_plan> having money is kinda decent though shrub
[2026-07-12T16:16:48Z] <midfavila> money is bullshit
[2026-07-12T16:17:10Z] <midfavila> if production was organised based on material need we would basically not have to work 
[2026-07-12T16:17:16Z] <midfavila> given how productive industry has become
[2026-07-12T16:17:41Z] <shrub900> i have money
[2026-07-12T16:18:01Z] <shrub900> actually i got a job but its remote work and very easy so i just have a lot of free time
[2026-07-12T16:18:24Z] <sad_plan> i know mid. we even fabricate trash these days. looking at you temu...
[2026-07-12T16:18:39Z] <midfavila> because that's all people can afford >:OOO
[2026-07-12T16:18:39Z] <sad_plan> so you lied shrub900. youre not unemployd
[2026-07-12T16:18:52Z] <midfavila> shrub wishes they were unemployed
[2026-07-12T16:18:57Z] <midfavila> we can all strive to be neets
[2026-07-12T16:19:00Z] <sad_plan> thats not it midfavila, its compulsory spending at this point
[2026-07-12T16:19:12Z] <shrub900> i was unemployed actually until this week
[2026-07-12T16:19:19Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: wdym
[2026-07-12T16:19:25Z] <sad_plan> i wanna retire today, but i would be broke if I did
[2026-07-12T16:19:29Z] <shrub900> does a paid internship count as employment anyway?
[2026-07-12T16:19:34Z] <midfavila> yes
[2026-07-12T16:19:36Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: they cant not waste their money on useless stuff
[2026-07-12T16:19:46Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: do you have any idea how much clothing costs
[2026-07-12T16:19:47Z] <midfavila> or furniture
[2026-07-12T16:19:48Z] <midfavila> or food
[2026-07-12T16:19:51Z] <midfavila> or rent
[2026-07-12T16:20:07Z] <shrub900> i'm making drunken bishop randomart from openssh standalone because i don't want to install openssh
[2026-07-12T16:20:07Z] <sad_plan> i do
[2026-07-12T16:20:11Z] <midfavila> stuff that *isn't* the bottom of the fucking barrel and won't fall apart in two seconds
[2026-07-12T16:20:28Z] <midfavila> okay then wtaf are you on
[2026-07-12T16:20:31Z] <sad_plan> do you hate openssh shrub? or do you just love dropbear?
[2026-07-12T16:20:40Z] <shrub900> i fucking love dropbear
[2026-07-12T16:20:48Z] <shrub900> i am also working on a fork of it for fun
[2026-07-12T16:20:58Z] <midfavila> people here literally can't afford oranges and you're like "man people just need to stop spending money on useless shit"
[2026-07-12T16:21:01Z] <midfavila> >.>
[2026-07-12T16:21:04Z] <shrub900> and i retypeset all their manpages in mdoc and PR'd it although no response yet :(
[2026-07-12T16:21:21Z] <sad_plan> shrub i wish mkj didnt reject the pr about encrypted keys, but I suppose his point were valid anyway
[2026-07-12T16:21:32Z] <shrub900> i'm doing a dropbear build with only modern algorithms and libsodium instead of libtom*
[2026-07-12T16:21:55Z] <shrub900> and maybe meson or handwritten ninja for build if i get round to that
[2026-07-12T16:22:16Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: but its true. if people couldnt afford to buy useless shit, there wouldnt be a marked for it. sites like amazon wouldnt put that shit in front either it it wasnt the truth
[2026-07-12T16:22:20Z] <shrub900> sometimes i wake up and realize all the code i use i can just modify to my liking
[2026-07-12T16:22:23Z] <midfavila> sad_plan: that's fucking stupid
[2026-07-12T16:22:30Z] <shrub900> and libsodium is a lot better than libtomcrypt imo so
[2026-07-12T16:22:34Z] <midfavila> there's a market for cheap shit because people can't afford to buy decent shit
[2026-07-12T16:22:48Z] <midfavila> you can't seriously expect everyone to, say, sit on the floor instead of buying a chair 
[2026-07-12T16:23:08Z] <midfavila> a certain level of expense to maintain a modest quality of life is perfectly reasonable 
[2026-07-12T16:23:12Z] <sad_plan> shrub900: nice
[2026-07-12T16:23:35Z] <shrub900> dropbear without vendored libtom is really not a lot of code
[2026-07-12T16:23:41Z] <shrub900> it confuses me why openssh so massive
[2026-07-12T16:23:48Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: they cant help themselves at times, but yes, I assume people would buy a chair before other useless trash, but im not suprised anymore
[2026-07-12T16:23:58Z] <midfavila> the people who are buying stupid shit 24/7 aren't generally the same ones who can't afford food 
[2026-07-12T16:24:07Z] <midfavila> you're literally just repeating classist bullshit
[2026-07-12T16:24:21Z] <sad_plan> shrub900: yea, I was going to use dropbear earlier, but I was annoyd that I couldnt sign my commits. but now I kinda find it annoying doing it lol
[2026-07-12T16:24:22Z] <midfavila> kindly consider not doing that
[2026-07-12T16:24:34Z] <shrub900> i dont bother with signing commits
[2026-07-12T16:25:45Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: touche. if you can barely afford food, I dot suppose you waste your remining $5 or a tiny container to have on your desk
[2026-07-12T16:26:12Z] <sad_plan> yeah commitsigning doesnt stick across other places anyway, so I dont really know why i do it at this point
[2026-07-12T16:26:37Z] <sad_plan> not that I use git much outside of github anyway, seeing as thats where my stuff i hosted
[2026-07-12T16:27:17Z] <shrub900> are you ever going to move off github?
[2026-07-12T16:27:21Z] <shrub900> it kinda sux
[2026-07-12T16:28:33Z] <sad_plan> i know it does. but as others have said, if you want your stuff to be visible, theres the place. not that I care too much about that either really. i think it was mostly due to me using kiss, and at that time kiss stuff was hosted on github. so to make issues/prs and so on, i had to have an account
[2026-07-12T16:28:52Z] <sad_plan> i do have a codeberg too, but im a bit oposed to have more accounts than I need
[2026-07-12T16:28:52Z] <shrub900> i'd be happy to host you if at any point you want to move
[2026-07-12T16:29:06Z] <shrub900> sourcehut is also good
[2026-07-12T16:29:09Z] <sad_plan> ah, on srcdump you mean?
[2026-07-12T16:29:15Z] <shrub900> yeah
[2026-07-12T16:29:34Z] <sad_plan> i dont like sr.ht. i find the ui to be terrible lol. its not easy to find issues and such like it is on github
[2026-07-12T16:29:56Z] <shrub900> i like it alot better lol but to each their own
[2026-07-12T16:30:03Z] <sad_plan> which might be why I do like github for stuff. but yeah, I wouldnt mind hosting stuff on srcdump either I suppose
[2026-07-12T16:30:05Z] <sad_plan> lol yeah
[2026-07-12T16:30:24Z] <sad_plan> I did also consider selfhosting git, on a vps. but I suppose srcdump is just as good
[2026-07-12T16:30:25Z] <shrub900> i need to work on my PR solution for srcdump its basically gonna be a filehost and then the ssg visualizes the uploaded patches as PR's and maintainers can curl and merge them
[2026-07-12T16:30:43Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2026-07-12T16:30:46Z] <shrub900> i think a filehost is easier than a mailing list although worse for discussion
[2026-07-12T16:30:58Z] <shrub900> but i hate git send email
[2026-07-12T16:31:11Z] <sad_plan> git send email also requires perl
[2026-07-12T16:31:38Z] <sad_plan> i never really liked email, but im adaptable to most solutions
[2026-07-12T16:31:54Z] <shrub900> thats why i hate it
[2026-07-12T16:31:59Z] <shrub900> (perl)
[2026-07-12T16:32:08Z] <sad_plan> i think we're kinda in the same mindset about how things shold be anyway, so I suppose w/e solution you come up with is fine by me :P
[2026-07-12T16:32:11Z] <sad_plan> lol right
[2026-07-12T16:32:25Z] <shrub900> if you want an account send ssh pubkey + wanted username
[2026-07-12T16:33:07Z] <sad_plan> sure. I was just looking at the about section on how to apply :P
[2026-07-12T16:51:12Z] <phoebos> o/
[2026-07-12T16:52:51Z] <midfavila> hey phoebos 
[2026-07-12T16:53:38Z] <sad_plan> hi phoebos 
[2026-07-12T16:55:39Z] <phoebos> hi how's it going
[2026-07-12T16:56:00Z] <phoebos> we're having a neverending heatwave, it sucks
[2026-07-12T16:57:15Z] <sad_plan> its going just fine and dandy here. its been quite hot these past days here too. how about you phoebos?
[2026-07-12T16:58:54Z] <phoebos> there's been a fire in the moors nearby so I can't even open the window in the evening because of the smoke!
[2026-07-12T16:59:20Z] <phoebos> now someone had a question about the codeberg repo
[2026-07-12T17:01:08Z] <sad_plan> oh, damn, thats tough
[2026-07-12T17:01:55Z] <sad_plan> uh, yeah dery wanted to make a pr for kiss, but im not sure if his done with it or not. there were a couple other things he wanted to bring up too
[2026-07-12T17:02:29Z] <sad_plan> like explicitly listing linux-headers as a dependency. he mentioned several packages depend on it, but linux-headers isnt in the depend file
[2026-07-12T17:06:24Z] <phoebos> that's because it's one of those that are assumed to always be present
[2026-07-12T17:06:36Z] <phoebos> but i agree explicit deps are better
[2026-07-12T17:09:24Z] <sad_plan> I agree. I think he was working on a list for repo/ atleast. to list out those that need it, but doesnt list it. he can probably tell us all about it when he shows up.
[2026-07-12T18:53:06Z] <dery> hi phoebos!
[2026-07-12T18:53:30Z] <dery> ye I'm looking at improving the git source since it's so annoying
[2026-07-12T18:53:43Z] <dery> especially important for the bubblewrap environment I'm playing on
[2026-07-12T20:03:02Z] <dery> so turns out concatenating tar files isn't reliable
[2026-07-12T20:04:03Z] <dery> it *works* but most (all?) readers stop at the first EOF entry
[2026-07-12T20:04:22Z] <dery> gnu tar has a setting for continuing but I can't find anything on busybox tar
[2026-07-12T20:13:20Z] <sad_plan> how did you discover that concatenating tarball isnt reliable? ive not had much issues with it. its only some tarballs that suck, but its always the same ones