[2026-07-27T12:17:58Z] midfavila: wf made a almost 100% posix sh implementation of ed https://srcdump.net/wf/ed/ [2026-07-27T12:18:24Z] its in mksh, but im pretty sure it can be ported to sh instead. or regular ksh for that matter atleast [2026-07-27T12:18:51Z] mksh has some.. unique stuff iirc thats not present in oksh for example [2026-07-27T13:41:28Z] sad_plan: it works with regular ksh for the most part from my tests [2026-07-27T13:41:39Z] i didnt test anything too extensive not look at the script in depth [2026-07-27T13:41:45Z] s/not/nor [2026-07-27T13:42:38Z] it doesent work with posix SH's though [2026-07-27T15:35:31Z] I see. so theres some limitations in regards to POSIX, wasnt it? shrub900 [2026-07-27T19:19:41Z] shrub900: sad_plan: without looking at it i'm pretty confident that it relies heavily on ksh's arrays [2026-07-27T19:20:40Z] unless you feel like messing with $[1-9] i wouldn't port it to posix shell [2026-07-27T19:44:00Z] sad_plan: https://github.com/kkrruumm/basix-packages/ [2026-07-27T19:50:03Z] midfavila: i belive youre right [2026-07-27T19:50:10Z] kris_: ill have a look [2026-07-27T19:51:09Z] the source for my package manager isnt up yet because im still tweaking some stuff [2026-07-27T19:51:17Z] but the repo is up because ive firmly decided on a package template [2026-07-27T19:51:26Z] yeah I was just about to point that out. as I wanted to have a look at it lol [2026-07-27T19:51:48Z] yeah im trying to finish the last couple things mostly doc/output related [2026-07-27T19:51:57Z] i really need some other people to look at this once im done [2026-07-27T19:52:15Z] just to see if anyone has anything to point out to me [2026-07-27T19:52:18Z] if sewn were here i bet she would [2026-07-27T19:52:50Z] anyway, the format seems sane to me. reminds me of apkbuilds, as I stated earlier [2026-07-27T19:53:04Z] im guessing things like bbin, and binstall are scripts from bpm? [2026-07-27T19:53:22Z] yeah they're more portable wrapper functions around everything [2026-07-27T19:53:26Z] the goal is to try to force consistency [2026-07-27T19:53:33Z] and making the templates a little prettier [2026-07-27T19:53:52Z] consistency is good. I like concistency [2026-07-27T19:54:07Z] eventually i might consolidate use_flags and use_default [2026-07-27T19:54:12Z] was just the most braindead way to implement that [2026-07-27T19:54:36Z] im undecided on a license for my package manager [2026-07-27T19:54:45Z] i figure probably bsd-3 but my heart really wants to gpl it [2026-07-27T19:55:03Z] I see you use that already, or atleast written it down. I see curl has both use_flags and use_default [2026-07-27T19:55:15Z] it does yeah [2026-07-27T19:55:25Z] use_flags is just for bpm to query for what a package supports toggling [2026-07-27T19:55:44Z] use_default can be overridden per package or globally [2026-07-27T19:55:54Z] without touching the template [2026-07-27T19:56:01Z] I find gpl restrictive, but I get why people want it. however, a counterarguemtn is, these are all just scripts. they have to be open. theres just no way around it. so forcing gpl is kinda redundant here if you ask me [2026-07-27T19:56:14Z] indeed my thought process [2026-07-27T19:56:20Z] normally i bsd-3 any shell scripts and gpl3 anything compiled [2026-07-27T19:56:58Z] gpl can restrict me shipping static binaries. and I dont like it lol. not that I usually ship binaries anywhere, but still. [2026-07-27T19:57:16Z] well i don't want to punish normal people but i hate corpos [2026-07-27T19:57:18Z] thats somewhat sane. I just use MIT for everything [2026-07-27T19:57:21Z] but in this case i highly highly doubt corpos care about this [2026-07-27T19:57:22Z] or will [2026-07-27T19:57:31Z] but my stuff is just more or less rc scripts anyway [2026-07-27T19:57:46Z] i had thought about writing my package manager in execline instead but 3 years deep = i don't feel like changing [2026-07-27T19:57:55Z] right, so mit or similar ones does suffice here imo [2026-07-27T19:58:07Z] lol, yeah i get that [2026-07-27T19:58:48Z] idk if it even matters but i really like that third clause in bsd3 [2026-07-27T19:59:01Z] ill just use that, fuck it [2026-07-27T19:59:41Z] there were some arguments for those bsd licences. iirc, they said something along the line of each itteratino got worse. so 0BSD is best i think? [2026-07-27T19:59:49Z] shrub900: correct me here [2026-07-27T20:00:44Z] https://procursus.social/@krum/116959887111017902 how high were you when you wrote this lol [2026-07-27T20:00:52Z] also please dont liquidate jupiter [2026-07-27T20:01:38Z] sad_plan: very [2026-07-27T20:01:45Z] lol [2026-07-27T20:01:54Z] i have a few posts like that where i go back to it and im like ...huh [2026-07-27T20:02:34Z] i love the curl $url | sudo sh meme. I love when I see those install instructions. its so terrible lol [2026-07-27T20:06:37Z] lmao yeah i don't know at what point that became so common [2026-07-27T20:07:33Z] lol yeah i have no clue [2026-07-27T20:13:38Z] my distros rootfs tarball is massive compared to the kiss one despite having the same packages with the same build options, seemingly due to gcc [2026-07-27T20:13:46Z] i have no idea why that's the case but yeah [2026-07-27T20:14:08Z] probably something to do with my shitty mkrootfs script [2026-07-27T20:31:22Z] thats wierd. have you compared package sizes too? [2026-07-27T20:31:34Z] i will later [2026-07-27T20:31:44Z] at the moment i'm finishing cleaning up bpm so i can upload it for you to look at [2026-07-27T20:31:52Z] nice [2026-07-27T20:31:59Z] i would *like* people here to audit it and bitch at me if im doing something dumb [2026-07-27T20:34:26Z] for sure [2026-07-27T20:35:23Z] a lot of this is honestly referenced/stolen from xbps-src and kiss [2026-07-27T20:35:27Z] over time [2026-07-27T20:35:34Z] i don't want to give anyone the impression that i know what i'm doing [2026-07-27T20:35:44Z] just wanted a specific build system for packages [2026-07-27T20:36:04Z] relateable. i too stole ideas from other projects :P [2026-07-27T20:38:44Z] alright, sad_plan: https://share.boba.best/raw/sY0H3JW3?download [2026-07-27T20:38:49Z] tarball of bpm [2026-07-27T20:39:00Z] i still need to adjust some var names because i made some last minute adjustments to the template var names [2026-07-27T20:39:57Z] fuck that makefile also needs to be updated because i got rid of my tools/ stuff i was using to bootstrap the first tarball [2026-07-27T20:40:28Z] or maybe ill just get rid of it and not care about people installing this on non basix distros since bpm has a real build template for it that doesn't need a makefile [2026-07-27T20:41:50Z] shrunk down after getting rid of said tools/ stuff it's 982 sloc lmao [2026-07-27T21:15:14Z] now im nitpicking, but why is the version 0.1.0, and not just 0.1? [2026-07-27T21:15:36Z] no clue just felt right [2026-07-27T21:15:37Z] i see that the clock is getting late now, so ill just have a quick look here, as i need to hit the hay very soon [2026-07-27T21:16:57Z] no worries [2026-07-27T21:19:18Z] for variable substituion, isnt it suppose to be ${var:-backupvar}? atleast thats how ive used it in the past. i belive kiss does this aswell [2026-07-27T21:19:43Z] instead of ${foo=:bar} [2026-07-27T21:20:19Z] s/=:/:=/ [2026-07-27T21:20:42Z] is this some bash thingy, or is that acceptable by posix aswell? [2026-07-27T21:20:52Z] this is running against busybox ash so [2026-07-27T21:21:20Z] are you targeting busybox ash though? [2026-07-27T21:21:24Z] yes [2026-07-27T21:21:30Z] but iirc it would refuse that if it were incorrect [2026-07-27T21:21:58Z] also where did you see that [2026-07-27T21:22:01Z] im convinced i fucked up a sed invocation now [2026-07-27T21:22:18Z] unless you're complaining about := and not =: [2026-07-27T21:22:21Z] then perhaps shebang should accommodate that? when I see $!/bin/sh, i do assume its targeting posix [2026-07-27T21:22:32Z] the s/ comment kinda confused me [2026-07-27T21:22:37Z] no i wrote wrong in the first comment [2026-07-27T21:22:50Z] `"${BPM_LIBDIR:=/usr/lib/bpm}"` [2026-07-27T21:22:51Z] shrug ive always done := and always seen it written that way [2026-07-27T21:23:06Z] shellcheck isnt complaining [2026-07-27T21:23:10Z] shouldnt this use :- instead of :=? [2026-07-27T21:23:12Z] oh, hm [2026-07-27T21:23:22Z] ive just not seen it before, hence why im asking [2026-07-27T21:23:59Z] nvm i get what you're asking [2026-07-27T21:24:13Z] afaik :- is read only and doesnt touch the environment [2026-07-27T21:24:16Z] := is also posix [2026-07-27T21:25:00Z] i also see you like C style printf's. thats a new one for me. nice to see people actually using different styles. I keep seeing the same style over and over again, and.. well its mostly the same as mine lol [2026-07-27T21:25:03Z] hm, ok [2026-07-27T21:25:51Z] a lot of this has been nitpicked by friends [2026-07-27T21:25:54Z] stylistically [2026-07-27T21:26:43Z] hm I see, and youve accomodated for this, or did you keep it as is? [2026-07-27T21:26:59Z] generally if someone comments on "your printfs are weird" then i'll change it [2026-07-27T21:27:08Z] if its someone i take seriously i mean [2026-07-27T21:27:25Z] trying to write stuff that's actually posix compatible is still kind of a new concept to me [2026-07-27T21:27:29Z] generally my scripts are chock full of bashisms [2026-07-27T21:27:37Z] unrelated to the printfs [2026-07-27T21:27:55Z] anyway im guessing if these are your takes on this then i'm doing pretty good lol [2026-07-27T21:28:05Z] i'm about to roll another tarball with the updated package manager [2026-07-27T21:28:11Z] e.g. not the one you have [2026-07-27T21:28:15Z] I see. well i hope you didnt take my comment on your printf the wrong way. i dont usually see it that way, and I wont be writing it that way myself probably, but I like that its different [2026-07-27T21:28:16Z] but i just adjusted template var names [2026-07-27T21:28:19Z] its refreshing if anything [2026-07-27T21:28:20Z] nono i didnt dw [2026-07-27T21:28:48Z] anyway im kinda shocked myself even at how much this can do with how little code there actually is [2026-07-27T21:29:00Z] well so far thats been my takes, but I havent read the whole thing yet. [2026-07-27T21:29:02Z] this is the first build system ive written so [2026-07-27T21:29:12Z] yeah shellscripting is powerfull once you know how to use it [2026-07-27T21:29:36Z] i kinda tried to clone dylans style a little bit just because it looks clean [2026-07-27T21:29:42Z] im suprised rcpm or any of my other rc projects is bigger than what they are [2026-07-27T21:30:07Z] yeah i noticed you used his die name. i did too, but changed it to errexit instead because I didnt want it to be too similar to kiss [2026-07-27T21:30:39Z] I did keep the log function name though, but its not colored like kiss is [2026-07-27T21:30:39Z] yeah, again, a lot of this is outright stolen from either kiss or xbps-src and cleaned up after the fact [2026-07-27T21:30:53Z] like my package templates are damn near a 1:1 clone of voids [2026-07-27T21:31:07Z] because ive been packaging things for void for over 4 years atp id rather keep doing what ive been doing [2026-07-27T21:31:12Z] if it works it works [2026-07-27T21:31:22Z] i mean there's only so many ways you can write a package template anyway [2026-07-27T21:31:30Z] nothing is really unique [2026-07-27T21:31:40Z] pacman/apk/xbps templates are all super similar, xbps just keeps build commands out of them [2026-07-27T21:31:42Z] generally [2026-07-27T21:31:58Z] chimeras might be kinda unique because they're all python [2026-07-27T21:32:29Z] yeah I always thought pacman/apk looked very similar. gentoo's arent that far appart either [2026-07-27T21:32:40Z] but yeah, chimera's is more unique that way [2026-07-27T21:32:58Z] for rcpm, theyre just written in rc instead of shell, so theyre more or less the same as kiss [2026-07-27T21:33:04Z] i.e. https://github.com/hovercats/rcpm-ports/blob/master/pkg/oksh/build [2026-07-27T21:33:24Z] yeah really kind of identical [2026-07-27T21:33:27Z] i dont know much of anything about rc [2026-07-27T21:33:32Z] mid was telling me about it like last night [2026-07-27T21:33:50Z] you can see the layout there aswell for other packages too. i kept it similar to how oasis does it. appart from the buildscript name, as rcpm isnt using samurai/ninja to build [2026-07-27T21:34:28Z] rc is sick imo. i love it. but sometimes Im struggling to do things because its so minimal :P [2026-07-27T21:35:05Z] this is going to sound odd based on what i just sent you but i couldn't really care less abot minimalism [2026-07-27T21:35:16Z] minimalism just usually coincides with good quality stuff [2026-07-27T21:35:23Z] usually [2026-07-27T21:35:34Z] i also do find it finnicky at times. printing things are interpreted as literal. so echo 'foo' will print 'foo', not foo [2026-07-27T21:35:51Z] like part of the driver here was not being a fan of kiss' "disable everything by default and reenable stuff" philosophy [2026-07-27T21:35:56Z] not that it's wrong it's just cumbersome [2026-07-27T21:36:02Z] id rather do that in the reverse order and *remove* things i don't need [2026-07-27T21:36:14Z] being ~1kloc i still consider it rather minimal, but still. being minimal might not be a goal for this in of itself :P [2026-07-27T21:36:16Z] and ideally external to package templates so i don't have to maintain trees of packages for every computer i use [2026-07-27T21:36:27Z] hence use [2026-07-27T21:36:44Z] what i've done here is convinced myself that gentoos build system actually is as bloated as i thought it was, though [2026-07-27T21:36:50Z] this doesnt do *as much* as that but it does the bits i care about [2026-07-27T21:37:09Z] that just means its perfect for you. [2026-07-27T21:37:24Z] i probably wont daily drive this for several months though [2026-07-27T21:37:30Z] which is why i love my rcinit and rcsm. it does exacly what I need it to, but nothing more [2026-07-27T21:37:42Z] that depends on the time you spend on it though :P [2026-07-27T21:37:43Z] im trying to get some of my friends to help me package stuff for this bust most of them are like systemd/llvm/glibc likers [2026-07-27T21:37:47Z] so they're kinda diametrically opposed to me [2026-07-27T21:38:08Z] yeah, i dont have any friends who uses linux afaik, so im on my own here :P [2026-07-27T21:38:19Z] i mean, people in here are friends i would think [2026-07-27T21:38:36Z] but yeah i get you [2026-07-27T21:38:39Z] hell my stuff is even niche here :p [2026-07-27T21:38:59Z] bbaovanc: hey asshole help me package stuff for basix [2026-07-27T21:39:02Z] i did get some prise on #derive though by someone. that was nice. but dunno if he uses it, or tried it [2026-07-27T21:39:07Z] (idk if he even checks IRC, i have him added on discord) [2026-07-27T21:39:40Z] derive is way too far for me [2026-07-27T21:39:42Z] but yes, you are right. i do in a sense consider people here friends too. we do talk a lot, and have done so for quite some time now too [2026-07-27T21:40:02Z] like dont get me wrong derive is super fucking cool it's just bound to be a maintenance burden for me personally [2026-07-27T21:40:14Z] i have no clue who this person is though [2026-07-27T21:40:27Z] I get that. you have other needs that derive wont fullfill [2026-07-27T21:40:29Z] oh bbaovanc is one of my buddies [2026-07-27T21:40:30Z] and thats fine [2026-07-27T21:40:33Z] I see [2026-07-27T21:40:38Z] i can't get him to be active on irc [2026-07-27T21:40:41Z] usually we talk on discord [2026-07-27T21:40:59Z] hm, I see. I suppose some people just like discord more [2026-07-27T21:41:08Z] in all fairness IRC kinda sucks [2026-07-27T21:41:20Z] i'm still not happy about libera.chat banning most vpns [2026-07-27T21:41:25Z] nah, its fine. its text only, and thats all we need imo [2026-07-27T21:41:28Z] yeah I get that [2026-07-27T21:41:30Z] good thing it's decentralized, right? ...right? [2026-07-27T21:41:35Z] lol, right [2026-07-27T21:41:38Z] in all seriousness xmpp is probably my ideal chat protocol [2026-07-27T21:41:55Z] yeah mid also mentions xmpp from time to time. ive never used it [2026-07-27T21:42:05Z] it's a complete and utter dumpsterfire [2026-07-27T21:42:15Z] but it has most of the features people who like discord care about and it has e2ee [2026-07-27T21:42:30Z] i remember z3bra mentioned tox, but ive never used that either [2026-07-27T21:42:39Z] neither have i [2026-07-27T21:43:04Z] e2ee is nice though [2026-07-27T21:43:23Z] technically irc also has it via otr but no clients support it other than like weechat and irssi [2026-07-27T21:43:43Z] and pidgin if you add a plugin i think [2026-07-27T21:44:01Z] https://tox.chat/about.html [2026-07-27T21:44:09Z] p2p and e2ee [2026-07-27T21:45:34Z] yeah, irc is terrible in that way. theres too many clients for there to be any reasonable standard to be set. although it does make for some cool super minimal irc clients though, like the old irc2 by mccpccp or whatever his name was. written in shell, and uses netcat. think it was like 30 lines or something [2026-07-27T21:46:08Z] https://github.com/mcpcpc/irc2 [2026-07-27T21:50:27Z] that's pretty impressive tbh [2026-07-27T21:50:32Z] IRC being such a simple protocol is pretty sick [2026-07-27T21:51:36Z] you did see dylans bash irc client right [2026-07-27T21:51:42Z] iirc called birch [2026-07-27T22:00:15Z] yeah I used to use it in the past when I firste started to use kiss. its sick. even has colors and everything. the only thing missing was tls/ssl i think [2026-07-27T22:00:23Z] appart from it being in bash though [2026-07-27T22:00:42Z] i tried to rewrite irc2 in rc a while back, but I coudlnt get it to work properly [2026-07-27T22:01:01Z] ive been thinking about trying ircrc from 9 too, but i know it requires some changes to work on unix [2026-07-27T22:01:12Z] anyway, im going to bed. ttyl [2026-07-27T22:50:49Z] a [2026-07-27T23:29:37Z] hi