[2026-09-05T00:24:23Z] I finally got Firefox to build -- and work, kind of -- for KX. I'd feel much more celebratory about that if it worked a little more fully. As it is, there is no text anywhere in the frame, including the URL bar and the hamburger menu. I can browse the web, but I'm flying blind. [2026-09-05T01:07:23Z] kris_: uhm it's called discourse [2026-09-05T01:07:24Z] :3c [2026-09-05T01:07:33Z] midfavila: sup [2026-09-05T01:07:35Z] a gathering of intellects [2026-09-05T01:07:37Z] a union of egos even [2026-09-05T01:07:43Z] an intellectual debate i see [2026-09-05T01:07:52Z] of the highest calibre [2026-09-05T03:37:44Z] hyd kissers? [2026-09-05T03:38:49Z] omg dery [2026-09-05T03:38:50Z] hi [2026-09-05T03:39:02Z] hiiii kris [2026-09-05T03:39:25Z] whats up [2026-09-05T03:39:33Z] yes [2026-09-05T03:40:28Z] i've recently started feeling like a human for reasons [2026-09-05T03:40:36Z] and it's weird having feelings for once [2026-09-05T03:40:38Z] what does that mean [2026-09-05T03:40:39Z] oh [2026-09-05T03:40:48Z] also kinda hurts [2026-09-05T03:41:02Z] yeah that'll happen [2026-09-05T03:41:11Z] kris_: i'd go into more details but, need just a bit more time [2026-09-05T03:41:21Z] no worries, i hope you feel better [2026-09-05T03:41:30Z] way milder than it seems, especially for this irc [2026-09-05T03:41:57Z] but ye feeling icky and happy and sad and stuff and... fuck i must not vent [2026-09-05T03:42:10Z] well venting usually makes people feel better [2026-09-05T03:42:15Z] just couldn't sleep so i felt like distracting myself [2026-09-05T03:42:53Z] it's especially problematic as i can't talk about most of this publicly and i won't make you my vent valve [2026-09-05T03:42:54Z] yeah fair [2026-09-05T03:43:10Z] BUT [2026-09-05T03:43:20Z] i realize how little social interactions i have [2026-09-05T03:43:32Z] so that's why i randomly got here [2026-09-05T03:43:49Z] that said... How are you doin kris_? :3 [2026-09-05T03:44:34Z] exhausted [2026-09-05T03:44:45Z] lot of uni stuff and basix linux has been a lot of work [2026-09-05T03:44:46Z] why [2026-09-05T03:44:53Z] oh sorry didn't let you write [2026-09-05T03:44:59Z] no worries [2026-09-05T03:45:02Z] basix linux? [2026-09-05T03:45:04Z] your distro? [2026-09-05T03:45:06Z] my distro yeah [2026-09-05T03:45:10Z] lessgoooo [2026-09-05T03:45:17Z] i "finished" my package manager + build system [2026-09-05T03:45:21Z] so now im just building out a distro around it [2026-09-05T03:45:31Z] do i have to make my own distro too now xD [2026-09-05T03:45:40Z] absolutely not you should 100% use mine [2026-09-05T03:45:41Z] also uni!!!! so happy to know that [2026-09-05T03:45:46Z] wish you the best! [2026-09-05T03:46:02Z] im actually under kiss' sloc for the build system + package manager but i have a lot more features [2026-09-05T03:46:10Z] such as [2026-09-05T03:46:14Z] use flags is a major one [2026-09-05T03:46:19Z] xbps-src style templating [2026-09-05T03:46:21Z] build_style s [2026-09-05T03:46:32Z] fully isolated builds, too [2026-09-05T03:46:36Z] i apparently always wanted kiss but like guix [2026-09-05T03:46:47Z] on initial bootstrap it builds a new root and uses unshare for isolation [2026-09-05T03:46:51Z] new root for building inside of [2026-09-05T03:46:55Z] anything that happens on top of it is overlayfs [2026-09-05T03:46:56Z] use flags actually not sure how to feel about them [2026-09-05T03:47:03Z] so the base doesnt need to be rebuilt over and over [2026-09-05T03:47:06Z] but isolated builds lessgooo [2026-09-05T03:47:08Z] it just discards the overlay [2026-09-05T03:47:25Z] it also has a verify feature [2026-09-05T03:47:27Z] that's clever! my script just installed everything all the time [2026-09-05T03:47:36Z] so basically every file every package may provide has an attached b3sum [2026-09-05T03:47:44Z] so if something gets corrupted or something somehow bpm can find that out [2026-09-05T03:47:50Z] awesome [2026-09-05T03:48:06Z] as for the distro it's just musl + busybox + s6 + libressl [2026-09-05T03:48:20Z] that is good, that is good [2026-09-05T03:48:29Z] it's definitely closer to my ideal distro [2026-09-05T03:48:31Z] i more or less cloned kiss' alternatives system [2026-09-05T03:48:39Z] so my friend who has an install is using systemd and chimera-utils on hers [2026-09-05T03:48:51Z] you just toggle off services as a global use flag and dont install s6 stuff [2026-09-05T03:48:52Z] all there is to it [2026-09-05T03:49:07Z] did you implement it with the same weird file based thing [2026-09-05T03:49:19Z] always felt quite hacky to my eyes [2026-09-05T03:49:26Z] the alternatives system is pretty much identical to kiss' yeah but it works well [2026-09-05T03:49:43Z] https://github.com/kkrruumm/basix-packages [2026-09-05T03:49:43Z] nice [2026-09-05T03:49:49Z] here's the package repo if you wanted to see what a bpm package looks like [2026-09-05T03:49:54Z] have you considered statically linking most stuff [2026-09-05T03:50:06Z] i havent really thought much about it [2026-09-05T03:50:11Z] most things have a -static useflag [2026-09-05T03:50:13Z] off by default [2026-09-05T03:50:30Z] oh another thing here [2026-09-05T03:50:36Z] the services are all written in execline as of an hour ago, not shell [2026-09-05T03:50:42Z] other than the core services [2026-09-05T03:50:57Z] this also uses mdevd + libudev-zero [2026-09-05T03:51:09Z] some other opinions of mine like no cron, i wrote a small wrapper around snooze [2026-09-05T03:51:24Z] busybox provides zero services here, they've all been replaced by other things [2026-09-05T03:51:34Z] so it's *only* a coreutils impl [2026-09-05T03:52:00Z] interesting package style [2026-09-05T03:52:07Z] its a direct ripoff of voids [2026-09-05T03:52:07Z] how is execline? [2026-09-05T03:52:18Z] smaller, fast, no garbage around parsing [2026-09-05T03:52:32Z] i've heard about it but it never fully sold me [2026-09-05T03:52:33Z] my goal is to eventually get this to a point where a shell is never spawned until someone logs into the system [2026-09-05T03:52:43Z] execline is just much cheaper [2026-09-05T03:54:20Z] oh here's why i didn't like it [2026-09-05T03:54:22Z] that may or may not stick around though i'm not fully sold myself [2026-09-05T03:54:23Z] the argv thing [2026-09-05T03:54:28Z] ah yeah [2026-09-05T03:54:34Z] it feels like a huge hack to me [2026-09-05T03:54:44Z] for services though a regular shell is hyper overkill was my mentality [2026-09-05T03:54:51Z] for some of these core services though execline would not work out [2026-09-05T03:54:58Z] maybe that's the intended usecase [2026-09-05T03:55:01Z] it is [2026-09-05T03:55:03Z] ish [2026-09-05T03:55:12Z] https://github.com/kkrruumm/basix-packages/blob/main/baseinit/files/scripts/devices [2026-09-05T03:55:13Z] this for example [2026-09-05T03:55:19Z] this is going to have to stay a shell script [2026-09-05T03:56:19Z] yea i can see that [2026-09-05T03:56:27Z] well it's nice to have options ig [2026-09-05T03:56:39Z] i really need to get back into this whole distro fun [2026-09-05T03:56:41Z] i am sadly fully sold on s6 [2026-09-05T03:56:45Z] it's fucking amazing [2026-09-05T03:56:47Z] how is it? [2026-09-05T03:56:49Z] lesssgoooo [2026-09-05T03:57:01Z] it's kinda runit ish with dependencies [2026-09-05T03:57:04Z] and an actual logger [2026-09-05T03:57:30Z] kinda what you were talking about with things feeling hacky, runit has always felt like a hack to me the moment you want logging or services to depend on other services [2026-09-05T03:57:37Z] s6 solves that or at least hides the mess from me [2026-09-05T03:57:48Z] yea i'm sure it does [2026-09-05T03:57:50Z] and s6 has readiness notifications [2026-09-05T03:57:52Z] it looks badass [2026-09-05T03:57:56Z] awesome [2026-09-05T03:57:56Z] so when you check if a service is up, it's UP [2026-09-05T03:58:00Z] it's not just "the PID is there" [2026-09-05T03:58:31Z] lacking udev has been the only annoying thing here tbh [2026-09-05T03:58:43Z] gonna have to figure out porting android-udev-rules and steam-udev-rules [2026-09-05T03:58:44Z] why? [2026-09-05T03:58:50Z] ohh i can help you with that [2026-09-05T03:58:54Z] i made scripts! [2026-09-05T03:59:15Z] i made it super complicated but the principles are the same [2026-09-05T03:59:29Z] genuinely considering making a lil c helper [2026-09-05T03:59:50Z] look at my kiss-scripts repo and relative docs [2026-09-05T03:59:56Z] you wrote a converter? [2026-09-05T03:59:59Z] in managing-devices.md i think [2026-09-05T04:00:06Z] oh not a converter per se [2026-09-05T04:00:35Z] i should, but that thing is also like a scripting language [2026-09-05T04:00:43Z] so it might not be possible [2026-09-05T04:00:52Z] i know the garden dev made a converter [2026-09-05T04:00:56Z] i havent looked at it yet though [2026-09-05T04:01:03Z] do send your stuff though if you have a link hadny [2026-09-05T04:01:04Z] handy [2026-09-05T04:01:07Z] i did a thing where you make a dir with the subsystem, a file with the group name [2026-09-05T04:01:18Z] and there you put vendor product pairs [2026-09-05T04:01:46Z] it's super modular and stuff both cause i'm dumb also because i would find different subsystems all the time [2026-09-05T04:01:56Z] i'm sure it could be done more elegantly [2026-09-05T04:02:04Z] link coming up! [2026-09-05T04:02:45Z] https://codeberg.org/dery/kiss-scripts/src/branch/main/doc/managing-devices.md [2026-09-05T04:03:09Z] <3 [2026-09-05T04:07:51Z] i need to convert the udev stuff to a file with plain pairs now that you point that out [2026-09-05T04:08:12Z] that said it's gpl, which for a "database" it's... interesting [2026-09-05T04:08:19Z] see i was thinking id just convert the entirety of steam/android udev rules and maintain it [2026-09-05T04:08:56Z] outside of gpl the issue is that there is some globbing i think [2026-09-05T04:09:02Z] i could add support for that [2026-09-05T04:09:38Z] there is [2026-09-05T04:09:43Z] mdevd also has a few things mdev doesn't [2026-09-05T04:09:58Z] i forget what specifically but it uses execline for some stuff conditionally [2026-09-05T04:10:06Z] normal mdev compatible rules don't [2026-09-05T04:10:26Z] i'll get hated for this but i'm hugely convinced that the way forward is generic filter binaries [2026-09-05T04:10:41Z] instead of device-manager specific scripts [2026-09-05T04:10:54Z] potentially [2026-09-05T04:11:03Z] idk i dont have a horse in this race im just trying to avoid systemd components [2026-09-05T04:11:11Z] (actually for joysticks i largely believe that we need to make them first-class input devices but i digress) [2026-09-05T04:11:12Z] and i didnt want mdev from busybox, i dont want busybox to provide any services [2026-09-05T04:11:17Z] makes it more annoying to replace [2026-09-05T04:11:35Z] well the biggest critique is the forking and in this case shell instantiation [2026-09-05T04:11:47Z] yeah, mdevd doesn't fork on every uevent [2026-09-05T04:12:05Z] i could make a listener tho [2026-09-05T04:12:11Z] and-or make a c thing [2026-09-05T04:12:21Z] but oh well, let's start with something [2026-09-05T04:12:36Z] i too use mdevd fwiw [2026-09-05T04:12:39Z] o [2026-09-05T04:12:44Z] for some reason i thought you were on normal mdev [2026-09-05T04:12:54Z] it had some weird ass quirk [2026-09-05T04:12:56Z] good to know then and i actually have a ton of questions [2026-09-05T04:12:58Z] can't remember hat [2026-09-05T04:13:08Z] basically, looking at the git repo for libudev-zero, theres a ton of shit that's listed as broken [2026-09-05T04:13:09Z] something like, it missed some subsystems [2026-09-05T04:13:11Z] i had to patch pipewire, works fine now [2026-09-05T04:13:15Z] dosfstools has worked fine the entire time [2026-09-05T04:13:18Z] have you tried cups? [2026-09-05T04:13:20Z] or lvm2? [2026-09-05T04:13:24Z] you had to patch pipewire??? [2026-09-05T04:13:41Z] i daily drive lvm2 since forever [2026-09-05T04:13:54Z] cups, yes but the 2.x branch or w/e [2026-09-05T04:14:00Z] https://github.com/illiliti/libudev-zero/issues/63 [2026-09-05T04:14:06Z] hang on [2026-09-05T04:14:06Z] wrong thing [2026-09-05T04:14:13Z] https://github.com/illiliti/libudev-zero/issues/26 [2026-09-05T04:14:14Z] here [2026-09-05T04:14:22Z] i just pulled the most recent patch [2026-09-05T04:14:39Z] wat [2026-09-05T04:14:44Z] im not 100% sure this is needed [2026-09-05T04:14:50Z] this is familiar but at the same time it's been ages [2026-09-05T04:14:58Z] but i was having an issue with getting audio devices to even show up to pipewire [2026-09-05T04:15:04Z] i need to pick up my laptop one min [2026-09-05T04:16:43Z] also if cups and lvm2 work fine for you with mdevd and libudev-zero then i'm comfortable with my choices here [2026-09-05T04:16:51Z] i need both of these things so [2026-09-05T04:17:35Z] welp [2026-09-05T04:17:38Z] would you look at that [2026-09-05T04:17:40Z] I have the patch [2026-09-05T04:17:43Z] :p [2026-09-05T04:17:47Z] bruh I updated this thing a crapton of times [2026-09-05T04:17:53Z] guess that part never changed [2026-09-05T04:18:19Z] also yea lvm2 always worked. Worst case most stuff allows you to disable udev support [2026-09-05T04:18:42Z] ill have to test it because my usage of lvm isnt normal [2026-09-05T04:18:45Z] actually libudev-zero is supposed to be an escape hatch and sometimes actually causes issues compared to plain device support iirc [2026-09-05T04:19:16Z] cups again, I never bothered to package the new ipp based branch [2026-09-05T04:19:21Z] i havent actually installed basix on my desktop yet [2026-09-05T04:19:31Z] also because my annoying-ass printer got delegated to some do-it-all ipp stub thing [2026-09-05T04:19:33Z] still a few things i need to have before i can do that [2026-09-05T04:19:36Z] qemu being the big one [2026-09-05T04:19:52Z] qemu isn't that bad at all [2026-09-05T04:19:59Z] just don't build all arches and you will be allright xD [2026-09-05T04:19:59Z] i havent attempted it yet [2026-09-05T04:20:03Z] it seemed like a lot to package [2026-09-05T04:20:16Z] albeit i was looking at it in the context of supporting all archs [2026-09-05T04:20:18Z] and all features [2026-09-05T04:20:36Z] all archs build the same, I think? [2026-09-05T04:20:38Z] half the point of bpm is that it has use flags so i want pretty much everything available but not enabled by default [2026-09-05T04:20:40Z] all features... good luck [2026-09-05T04:20:57Z] yeahhh [2026-09-05T04:21:01Z] I couldn't even get all features to work even when built properly and all [2026-09-05T04:21:03Z] like the dbus output [2026-09-05T04:21:04Z] im really hoping people who aren't me start using this once i publish tarballs [2026-09-05T04:21:13Z] looks super hella nifty for touch and stuff but no client I tried was decent enough [2026-09-05T04:21:14Z] and will help maintain everything [2026-09-05T04:21:17Z] there's getting to be 300 packages in my repo [2026-09-05T04:21:25Z] most advanced things are kinda just for libvirt I suppose [2026-09-05T04:21:31Z] or at least tested like that [2026-09-05T04:21:36Z] yeah im also going to be adding libvirt [2026-09-05T04:21:38Z] because virt-manager needs it [2026-09-05T04:21:43Z] and i use virt-manager for a bunch of shit [2026-09-05T04:21:45Z] like remote VMs on my server [2026-09-05T04:21:53Z] also the virtio-like pcie thing which requires a separate daemon :sob: [2026-09-05T04:22:11Z] ive been redhat free up until this point but i do need libvirt i think [2026-09-05T04:22:13Z] oh that *might* be easier then????? [2026-09-05T04:22:27Z] I recall looking into the dependency tree and was like "no thanks" [2026-09-05T04:22:33Z] uhhh [2026-09-05T04:22:35Z] what about docs? [2026-09-05T04:22:39Z] how is your distro handling those [2026-09-05T04:22:45Z] i have everything packaged lol [2026-09-05T04:22:50Z] I never, ever understood why kiss avoided so hard docs [2026-09-05T04:22:51Z] there's a -man use flag and a -docs use flag [2026-09-05T04:22:56Z] when the point was offline knowledge [2026-09-05T04:22:56Z] you can have it or not [2026-09-05T04:22:57Z] up to you [2026-09-05T04:23:01Z] niceeee [2026-09-05T04:23:06Z] man is enabled by default, doc is for random garbage like html docs [2026-09-05T04:23:08Z] off by default [2026-09-05T04:23:24Z] do you also have like conditional dependencies, as in depending on the flag [2026-09-05T04:23:32Z] yessir [2026-09-05T04:23:53Z] yay [2026-09-05T04:23:57Z] what it cant do is resolve like [2026-09-05T04:24:05Z] >xyz library has xyz flag turned off, this package wont compile [2026-09-05T04:24:17Z] i havent decided how to fix that [2026-09-05T04:24:25Z] fair [2026-09-05T04:24:29Z] more pressing issue is a conflicts system [2026-09-05T04:24:31Z] and maybe a provides [2026-09-05T04:24:36Z] PROVIDES [2026-09-05T04:24:37Z] YES [2026-09-05T04:24:49Z] thing is ive given myself a hard limit of 2k sloc [2026-09-05T04:24:52Z] im already golfing it really hard [2026-09-05T04:24:58Z] i still don't understand why the "provides so" "provides cmd" "provides file" isn't more common [2026-09-05T04:25:24Z] I always wanted to do a c thing but never had the motivation so I'm now wrapping and hooking kiss [2026-09-05T04:25:41Z] https://github.com/kkrruumm/bpm [2026-09-05T04:25:42Z] the provide thing is going to be complicated I reckon [2026-09-05T04:25:44Z] package manager wrapper btw [2026-09-05T04:25:56Z] i'm not going to write docs for i so i dont know when that'll happen [2026-09-05T04:26:02Z] i need to make a brief writeup for my friend and he'll do it for me [2026-09-05T04:26:09Z] wym wraper [2026-09-05T04:26:18Z] he does most of the manpages for freebsd so i can't think of a better person [2026-09-05T04:26:38Z] oh sorry i saw you type wrapping and typed wrapper [2026-09-05T04:26:44Z] idk why my brain does that i didnt even notice it [2026-09-05T04:26:59Z] people can literally prompt inject me and i'm a person [2026-09-05T04:27:33Z] xD nw it's fine [2026-09-05T04:28:09Z] i am like super messed up rn, it's like 6:30 and went through stuff. Can't say I'm the most lucid I've been [2026-09-05T04:28:37Z] no worries, i'm barely awake myself [2026-09-05T04:28:44Z] yesterday i was out of the house from 8am untl midnight [2026-09-05T04:28:54Z] wow what did you do? Uni? [2026-09-05T04:29:00Z] uni and then went to a bar for trivia [2026-09-05T04:29:07Z] for trivia? [2026-09-05T04:29:28Z] yeah i go with my stepmom/father/fathers boss/one of my fathers friends to a bar every thursday for trivia [2026-09-05T04:29:39Z] is it like a quiz [2026-09-05T04:29:42Z] kinda yes [2026-09-05T04:29:49Z] he asks a bunch of random questions and your team has to try to answer them [2026-09-05T04:29:55Z] oh I see [2026-09-05T04:29:56Z] we actually won last night [2026-09-05T04:30:00Z] that sounds very cool! [2026-09-05T04:30:07Z] also [2026-09-05T04:30:09Z] > bar [2026-09-05T04:30:11Z] I love bars [2026-09-05T04:30:16Z] i dont [2026-09-05T04:30:21Z] but thats where trivia happens so [2026-09-05T04:30:34Z] they have OK food and i'm unlikely to turn down beer [2026-09-05T04:30:38Z] its just a chaotic environment [2026-09-05T04:32:02Z] yea [2026-09-05T04:32:09Z] I guess it also depends on the bar and how you feel at the time [2026-09-05T04:32:20Z] also who you hang out with [2026-09-05T04:32:42Z] https://github.com/kkrruumm/basix-packages/blob/main/ffmpeg/template [2026-09-05T04:32:47Z] here's an example of conditional dependencies btw [2026-09-05T04:32:52Z] it's a little bit messy but it works [2026-09-05T04:34:24Z] oh interesting [2026-09-05T04:34:29Z] does the file get parsed twice? [2026-09-05T04:35:43Z] ohhhhhhhhh finally [2026-09-05T04:35:45Z] getting eepy [2026-09-05T04:35:47Z] lessgooo [2026-09-05T04:36:07Z] what a night [2026-09-05T04:36:49Z] hope I wasn't too annoying, really sorry. I genuinely had very little things to do, for reasons. [2026-09-05T04:36:58Z] I'll try eep. Night night! [2026-09-05T04:37:30Z] things get parsed a lot [2026-09-05T04:37:41Z] the seatd template as an example gets sourced 5 times, its pretty inefficient [2026-09-05T04:37:51Z] i've not designed this suuuuper well [2026-09-05T04:38:05Z] also you are never annoying dery [2026-09-05T04:38:12Z] gn [2026-09-05T14:36:59Z] https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/watch?v=39Ar8AN-sHc [2026-09-05T14:42:41Z] what intarnation [2026-09-05T14:43:46Z] it's called /culture/ [2026-09-05T14:43:48Z] :^)